1413 lines
107 KiB
Plaintext
1413 lines
107 KiB
Plaintext
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:19:30 2024
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Aug 01 12:19:30 * Now talking on #gentoo-chat
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Aug 01 12:19:30 * Topic for #gentoo-chat is: Welcome to #gentoo-chat | Rules: https://gentoo-chat.org/ (updated 2023-12-23) | ##notgentoo-idlerpg for classic Idle RPG fun with fellow Gentoo users | It is called "merge" requests, not "Problem Report", for a reason
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Aug 01 12:19:30 * Topic for #gentoo-chat set by ztrawhcse!~eschwartz@mesonbuild/eschwartz (Sun Apr 14 11:54:09 2024)
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Aug 01 12:19:30 * Channel #gentoo-chat url: https://memleek.org/gentoo-chat.txt
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Aug 01 12:19:32 <Psi-Jack> It
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Aug 01 12:19:32 <negril> sam_: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Qq6Q21dkOYM is this you?
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Aug 01 12:19:32 <chat> ^ ► YouTube :: Historically Accurate Pocahontas :: Duration: 01:00 :: Views: 20,609,506 :: Uploader: Flashgitz :: Uploaded: 2023-06-29 :: 1,093,230 likes
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Aug 01 12:19:48 <Psi-Jack> It's not like FLorida heat though. It's only 30'C with a high of 31'C today. But sheash.
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Aug 01 12:19:55 <ztrawhcse> genr8eofl: if it's about affliction then there's a common argument: easier to put on a coat in the bitter cold than take off your skin in the blistering heat
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Aug 01 12:20:10 <Psi-Jack> I prefer the cold. :)
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Aug 01 12:20:15 <ztrawhcse> the heat is ok if you *like* the heat
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Aug 01 12:20:17 <genr8eofl> ztrawhcse: they have a good argument
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Aug 01 12:20:33 <Psi-Jack> My dogs, they don't much like the cold.
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Aug 01 12:21:35 <genr8eofl> cursed short
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Aug 01 12:22:01 <negril> genr8eofl: you think it's accurate?
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Aug 01 12:22:41 <ztrawhcse> genr8eofl: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6b/61/29/6b6129a983a704db82707d357711dee6.jpg
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Aug 01 12:22:41 <chat> ^ [image/jpeg] (67.0KiB)
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:22:48 2024
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:22:48 2024
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Aug 01 12:23:18 * vitaly-zdanevich has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
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Aug 01 12:23:23 * Guest14 has quit (Quit: Client closed)
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:24:49 2024
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:24:49 2024
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:25:03 2024
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:25:03 2024
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:25:57 2024
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 1 12:25:57 2024
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Aug 01 12:26:23 <emanuele6> computers don't like the heat
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Aug 01 12:27:04 <Psi-Jack> Heh, my PVE cluster is running around 26.1C right now, because my building's A/C is not helping much.
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Aug 01 12:28:57 * pastry_eater (~user@ip70-174-202-209.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined
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Aug 01 12:31:20 <cihancan> we see 60C temps here in antalya
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Aug 01 12:31:26 <cihancan> your skin burns
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Aug 01 12:31:41 <cihancan> i mean im not in antalya thank god
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Aug 01 12:31:42 <Digit> i'm now finding it often ends up taking as much and more mental energy to figure out how to ask the llm the right questions and correcting it, as it would to have worked out the programming issue alone without it.
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Aug 01 12:31:43 <cihancan> my sister is
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Aug 01 12:31:58 <Psi-Jack> Hell, your skin burns at 30'C
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Aug 01 12:32:17 <Psi-Jack> At 60'C, your skin is closer to boiling.
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Aug 01 12:32:20 * Guest14 (~Guest14@195-240-154-162.fixed.kpn.net) has joined
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Aug 01 12:32:27 <cihancan> :F
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Aug 01 12:32:57 <cihancan> ac running all day
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Aug 01 12:33:01 <cihancan> sometime pushes hot air
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Aug 01 12:33:11 <indigo> Psi-Jack: depends on various factors. I was in a sauna earlier this year that was at 100 deg C
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Aug 01 12:33:16 * wedof has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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Aug 01 12:33:40 <cihancan> that would cook you
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Aug 01 12:34:24 <Psi-Jack> Yeah, 100'C is literally boiling point for water, and as it turns out, also blood.
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Aug 01 12:34:28 <XFaCiEer> It certainly cooks your sperm
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Aug 01 12:34:29 <indigo> People come inside with uncooked pizzas. They leave, adn the pizza is cooked, and they're dead
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Aug 01 12:34:40 <indigo> I could only handle three minutes inside lol
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Aug 01 12:35:27 * vitaly-zdanevich (~Thunderbi@ec2-51-16-88-88.il-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined
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Aug 01 12:35:30 <Psi-Jack> Heh, even in a Japan volcanic hot springs, you wouldn't see water at 100'C. A sauna at 100'C is just scary and deadly! LOL
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Aug 01 12:35:30 <XFaCiEer> Uncooked pizzas make the worst prostitutes
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Aug 01 12:36:01 <indigo> Psi-Jack: it's a dry heat sauna, and not the hottest sauna in the US
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Aug 01 12:36:14 <Psi-Jack> Yeah, but still...
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Aug 01 12:36:24 <indigo> https://www.thekingspa.com/our-facility-dry-sauna this is the hottest sauna in the US AFAIK
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Aug 01 12:36:24 <chat> ^ Our Facility
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Aug 01 12:36:27 <XFaCiEer> The hottest sauna is Arizona
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Aug 01 12:36:33 <indigo> > Oak wood trees are burned at extremely hot temperature of 200° C.
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Aug 01 12:36:42 <indigo> They do require you to cover your body before going in
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Aug 01 12:37:07 <XFaCiEer> In before someone starts a sauna inside an active volcano
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Aug 01 12:37:28 * hairu erupts on XFaCiEer
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Aug 01 12:37:36 <XFaCiEer> Rude
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Aug 01 12:37:43 <hairu> Hot.
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Aug 01 12:37:49 <XFaCiEer> You know how much it is to clean this?
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Aug 01 12:37:51 <hairu> As in, magma
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Aug 01 12:38:13 <hairu> Clean what? You're now vapour :)
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Aug 01 12:38:23 <XFaCiEer> Steamy
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Aug 01 12:38:41 <hairu> Fight steam with steam!
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Aug 01 12:38:59 <hairu> Volcanoes are the ultimate bedbug repellent
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Aug 01 12:39:13 <indigo> We need to make a new package, relax/sauna, that gives you the address to your nearest sauna on emerge
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Aug 01 12:39:30 <hairu> Ye
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Aug 01 12:39:33 <XFaCiEer> just make a wttr.in of that
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Aug 01 12:42:57 <genr8eofl> sam_: you'll get a kick out of this https://x.com/gssp_acc/status/1818738602077306950/photo/1
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Aug 01 12:42:57 <chat> ^ x.com
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Aug 01 12:43:47 <genr8eofl> "So DARPA's rewriting ALL it's C code in Rust" the TRACTOR program - available on the website - sam.gov - https://sam.gov/opp/1e45d648886b4e9ca91890285af77eb7/view
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Aug 01 12:43:47 <chat> ^ SAM.gov
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Aug 01 12:44:29 <negril> government agency going all in on the static joke
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Aug 01 12:45:42 * vitaly-zdanevich has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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Aug 01 12:46:17 <Jannik2099> why is sam in on this
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Aug 01 12:46:40 <qookie> betrayal
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Aug 01 12:47:22 <genr8eofl> looks like a super exclusive project :)
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Aug 01 12:47:39 <negril> probably gonna sneak in some backdoors
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Aug 01 12:48:52 <Nickli> unsafe {import generic_nsa_backdoor}
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Aug 01 12:49:28 <negril> verysafe { import build-to-host.m4 }
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Aug 01 12:51:26 <shamoe> People don't realize this is one research project from DARPA
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Aug 01 12:51:45 <shamoe> It is not an official statement from DARPA announcing they *will* rewrite all code into rust
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Aug 01 12:52:01 <genr8eofl> ok
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Aug 01 12:52:05 <shamoe> The description was written by the person doing the research
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Aug 01 12:52:17 <shamoe> I saw wayyyyy too many comments missing this
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Aug 01 12:52:26 <shamoe> Overall i wish them luck though, more research the better
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Aug 01 12:53:51 <shamoe> https://nitter.poast.org/hanhan_gk/status/1819052053747937684#m this guy gets it
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Aug 01 12:53:51 <chat> ^ Error retrieving title. Check the log for more details.
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Aug 01 12:56:16 <Kangie> I like the part where they blame Linux and the community instead of their inability to write CI and maintain basic packaging: https://lemmy.world/post/18151301
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Aug 01 12:56:18 <chat> ^ Lightburn is ending support for Linux after v1.7 - Lemmy.World
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Aug 01 12:59:00 <Jannik2099> lee nucks bad
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Aug 01 12:59:43 <Jannik2099> Kangie: did you know that an ebuilds HOMEPAGE can be put behind useflag conditionals and such
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Aug 01 13:00:01 <Jannik2099> but at the same time does not allow the full dependency syntax that you'd get e.g. in DEPEND
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Aug 01 13:00:05 <Jannik2099> https://github.com/Jannik2099/pms-utils/issues/35
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Aug 01 13:00:06 <chat> ^ dependency specification group restrictions are not enforced · Issue #35 · Jannik2099/pms-utils · GitHub
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Aug 01 13:00:07 * Jannik2099 screams
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Aug 01 13:00:13 <Kangie> Strictly yes but who does that
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Aug 01 13:00:21 <Jannik2099> no one does in ::gentoo lol
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Aug 01 13:00:40 <Kangie> Src_uri sure
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Aug 01 13:00:42 <Jannik2099> well actually, I didn't do a proper multi line grep
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Aug 01 13:00:52 <Jannik2099> I guess I can find out with pms_utils directly lol, one sec
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Aug 01 13:01:33 <ztrawhcse> > Performers might employ novel combinations of software analysis (e.g., static analysis and dynamic analysis), and machine learning techniques (e.g., large language models). The draft solicitation will be posted shortly.
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Aug 01 13:01:43 <ztrawhcse> very exciting news from darpa...
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Aug 01 13:01:56 <ztrawhcse> an LLM will surely produce safer code than C programmers do
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Aug 01 13:02:15 <genr8eofl> huge if true
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Aug 01 13:02:25 * Muii has quit (Quit: WeeChat 4.3.4)
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Aug 01 13:02:53 <qookie> ztrawhcse: well code that doesn't actually compile can't have vulnerabilities
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Aug 01 13:03:08 <Jannik2099> sadly true
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Aug 01 13:03:13 <genr8eofl> nope
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Aug 01 13:03:27 <genr8eofl> likely it has vulnerabilities from the last time it DID compile because someone reverted and never upgraded to the thing that didnt compile
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Aug 01 13:03:41 <qookie> the joke was that llm-generated code won't compile
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Aug 01 13:03:51 <qookie> in the first place
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Aug 01 13:03:55 <genr8eofl> it will compile better than old C code
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Aug 01 13:05:18 <genr8eofl> LLM-as-compiler is gonna be an interesting era, and i'm here for it
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Aug 01 13:09:54 <ztrawhcse> Kangie: this is fascinating. They spend so much time "supporting" similar distros? Why? This is like textbook proprietary linux programs 101: produce something that only requires glibc and, for GUI programs, X11, and bundles everything else it needs
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Aug 01 13:10:09 <Kangie> Yeah it's insane.
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Aug 01 13:10:37 <ztrawhcse> but it sounds like they felt like they had to make .deb and .rpm for each distro and each version of a distro? Very confusing.
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Aug 01 13:10:40 <Kangie> Also game Dev experience which is far more complex tends to show that Linux users are better at _reporting_ bugs
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Aug 01 13:11:19 <ztrawhcse> the arguments about how it's not worth supporting linux because they want to rewrite USB handling from scratch and don't wanna code a linux version ....
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Aug 01 13:12:32 * vitaly-zdanevich (~Thunderbi@ec2-51-16-88-88.il-central-1.compute.amazonaws.com) has joined
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Aug 01 13:18:08 <genr8eofl> microsoft is killing windows according to gamers nexus https://youtu.be/U_ZXmq5D7GE
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Aug 01 13:18:09 <chat> ^ ► YouTube :: Microsoft Is KILLING Windows | ft. Steve @GamersNexus :: Duration: 19:19 :: Views: 17,521 :: Uploader: Level1Techs :: Uploaded: 2024-08-01 :: 4,833 likes
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Aug 01 13:18:28 <genr8eofl> so the gamer crowd is going to be increasingly mobilized to fight for linux
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Aug 01 13:18:52 <Tatsh> are people really switching to `#pragma once` over include guards?
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Aug 01 13:18:53 <genr8eofl> saying you dont support linux flat out isnt really gonna be acceptable
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Aug 01 13:19:07 * tt_1 (~tt_1@p200300eb9f30fa9a1a31bffffe4be7de.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has left
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Aug 01 13:19:15 <Tatsh> microsoft is killing windows as in, not making it run directly on the computer iirc
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Aug 01 13:20:01 <Tatsh> sort of a plan. thin clients as has already been tried before but i don't see why not do that again
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Aug 01 13:20:35 <Tatsh> basically can have the thin client run a web browser that has the VM coming in via RDP
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Aug 01 13:20:36 * wedof (~wedof@2a02:810c:c0:28ac:9a1:21da:b7e3:68d5) has joined
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Aug 01 13:20:48 <Tatsh> this will work for all those departments that just use excel and a browser for everything
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Aug 01 13:21:22 <genr8eofl> Windows Cloud
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Aug 01 13:21:25 <Tatsh> yea
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Aug 01 13:21:39 * jabuxas has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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Aug 01 13:21:54 <Tatsh> all the apps that need windows that don't need heavy 3d acceleration can run on basic VMs
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Aug 01 13:22:17 <Tatsh> but of course, microsoft already has VMs to run Xbox games so that's where those can go
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Aug 01 13:24:06 <Psi-Jack> Nice. git also exists on live install media for Gentoo. :D
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Aug 01 13:24:54 <genr8eofl> they dont need to make you run on the cloud if they just take your machine over
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Aug 01 13:25:24 * Tom^ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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Aug 01 13:26:58 * monkfish (~monkfish@user/monkfish) has joined
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Aug 01 13:28:43 <MetaNova> of course not, because then, you become part of the cloud
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Aug 01 13:31:31 <oldfashionedcow> man utf8 in c++23 is a clusterufck
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Aug 01 13:35:59 <oldfashionedcow> Spawns_Carpeting: rust got strings so right
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Aug 01 13:36:26 <Arsen> how so
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Aug 01 13:36:37 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: i've spent about 4 hours trying to lossily convert to a utf8 string
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Aug 01 13:36:47 <oldfashionedcow> u8string is meh
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Aug 01 13:36:48 <Arsen> why
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Aug 01 13:36:50 <Arsen> just use iconv
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Aug 01 13:36:56 <Arsen> (or charconv, which calls iconv)
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Aug 01 13:36:56 <oldfashionedcow> iconv?
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Aug 01 13:37:09 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: what if i don't know the char encoding?
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Aug 01 13:37:17 <Arsen> ... then nothing can help you?
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Aug 01 13:37:32 <oldfashionedcow> in rust I'm just calling std::String::from_utf8_lossy
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Aug 01 13:37:36 <Arsen> like, legit, there's literally no solution to reliably guess encoding, especially with errors
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Aug 01 13:37:42 <Arsen> what?
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Aug 01 13:37:45 <Arsen> that doesn't transcode
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Aug 01 13:37:47 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: so wtf am i supposed to do for irc
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Aug 01 13:37:58 <oldfashionedcow> i can't guarentee it as utf8 but parts of it need to be utf8
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Aug 01 13:37:59 <Arsen> that just assumes utf8 and replaces stuff that isn't valid with the box
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Aug 01 13:38:05 <oldfashionedcow> tags have to be utf8 the rest of it can be whatever it wants
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Aug 01 13:38:11 <Arsen> assume utf8
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Aug 01 13:38:15 <oldfashionedcow> so i could have a line according to spec composed of mutiple encodings
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Aug 01 13:38:16 <Arsen> the rest is trash anyway
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Aug 01 13:38:21 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: what about the servers that don't support utf8 though
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Aug 01 13:38:27 <Arsen> skill issue?
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Aug 01 13:38:30 <Arsen> how do they fail to relay bits
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Aug 01 13:38:38 <Arsen> I doubt servers even inspect messages
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Aug 01 13:39:01 <oldfashionedcow> according to spec i need to be able to handle the case where a server sends non utf8 lines without dropping them
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Aug 01 13:39:01 <Arsen> if i wasn't afraid of crashing quassel i'd try sending some invalid utf8 here to see what happens
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Aug 01 13:39:15 * colonia_duck (~colonia@user/colonia-duck:76279) has joined
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Aug 01 13:39:25 <oldfashionedcow> I am unsure what to do for them
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Aug 01 13:39:26 <Arsen> but i dont trust the qt stack to not try and parse text wrong
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Aug 01 13:39:36 <Arsen> where does the standard say that
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Aug 01 13:39:40 <Arsen> becuase you said it can be any encoding
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Aug 01 13:39:42 <Naib> isn't that a double negative
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Aug 01 13:39:51 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: well PARTS Of it can
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Aug 01 13:39:52 <oldfashionedcow> one sec
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Aug 01 13:39:53 <Arsen> Naib: prob
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Aug 01 13:39:59 <Alfr> oldfashionedcow, throw away messages you can't parse, don't crash: Handled.
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Aug 01 13:40:00 <oldfashionedcow> https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/message-tags.html
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Aug 01 13:40:00 <chat> ^ Message Tags - IRCv3
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Aug 01 13:40:06 <oldfashionedcow> Tag values MUST be encoded as UTF8. This ensures a shared interoperable baseline for data exchange. If tag values are encountered that cannot be decoded as UTF8, implementations MAY drop the value entirely but SHOULD NOT substitute replacement bytes in place of invalid data, which can result in collisions.
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Aug 01 13:40:09 <Viperlin> a double negative is -1 + -1
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Aug 01 13:40:14 <oldfashionedcow> the may stuff is confusing
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Aug 01 13:40:26 <oldfashionedcow> https://ircv3.net/specs/extensions/utf8-only
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Aug 01 13:40:26 <chat> ^ UTF8ONLY ISUPPORT token - IRCv3
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Aug 01 13:40:30 <oldfashionedcow> > IRC predates the Unicode standard. Consequently, although UTF-8 has been widely adopted on IRC, clients cannot assume that all IRC data is UTF-8. This specification defines a way for servers to advertise that they only allow UTF-8 on their network, letting clients change their processing of outgoing and incoming messages accordingly.
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Aug 01 13:40:33 <Jannik2099> oldfashionedcow: Rust doesn't have to deal with `char` not being guaranteed to be able to represent a UTF-8 code point
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Aug 01 13:40:47 <oldfashionedcow> Jannik2099: irc is just a disaster to work with
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Aug 01 13:40:53 <oldfashionedcow> i don't know what i'm supposed to do properly
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Aug 01 13:40:55 <Arsen> cow that block of code literally tells you that you can't use from_utf8_lossy
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Aug 01 13:40:58 <Arsen> sorry
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Aug 01 13:41:00 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: for tags
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Aug 01 13:41:01 <Arsen> block of standardese
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Aug 01 13:41:02 <Arsen> yes
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Aug 01 13:41:07 <oldfashionedcow> the rest of the line i can
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Aug 01 13:41:22 <Arsen> okay lets try this a different way
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Aug 01 13:41:23 <Arsen> so
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Aug 01 13:41:24 <oldfashionedcow> hypothetically from what i asked apparently nothing stops a server from encoding parts of the line in differnt encodings
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Aug 01 13:41:26 <oldfashionedcow> which is so cursed
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Aug 01 13:41:28 <Arsen> are you rendering text
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Aug 01 13:41:31 <oldfashionedcow> yes
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Aug 01 13:42:03 <Arsen> like
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Aug 01 13:42:05 <Arsen> from a font
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Aug 01 13:42:09 <Arsen> aren't you building a lib
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Aug 01 13:42:18 <oldfashionedcow> i am writing a library but i will be rendering text with it later
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Aug 01 13:42:40 <oldfashionedcow> do I just create a std::string from the bytes and call it a day?
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Aug 01 13:42:45 <oldfashionedcow> except the tags why i use a std::u8string for?
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Aug 01 13:42:55 <oldfashionedcow> s/why/which/
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Aug 01 13:42:55 <chat> oldfashionedcow meant to say: except the tags which i use a std::u8string for?
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Aug 01 13:43:03 <colonia_duck> oldfashionedcow: whats the library for if you dont mind me asking?
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Aug 01 13:43:14 <oldfashionedcow> colonia_duck: irc :D
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Aug 01 13:43:21 <Arsen> yeah that sounds about right
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Aug 01 13:43:25 <Arsen> let pango or some shit deal with it
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Aug 01 13:43:35 <oldfashionedcow> okay that's all good then
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Aug 01 13:43:48 <oldfashionedcow> That makes things a lot easier
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Aug 01 13:43:56 <Arsen> (note: it'll deal with it by presuming utf8)
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Aug 01 13:43:56 <colonia_duck> oldfashionedcow: oh yeah you where talking about that on discord. good luck :)
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Aug 01 13:44:02 <Arsen> (note: that approach is correct)
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Aug 01 13:44:10 <oldfashionedcow> colonia_duck: thanks :)
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Aug 01 13:44:15 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: Can I just say I'm utf8 only
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Aug 01 13:44:17 <oldfashionedcow> how bad is that
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Aug 01 13:44:20 <oldfashionedcow> I mean it's 2024
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Aug 01 13:44:22 <Arsen> not at all
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Aug 01 13:44:25 <Arsen> i told you to do that ages ago
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Aug 01 13:44:41 <oldfashionedcow> honestly people who don't support utf8 can take the goddamn middle finger
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Aug 01 13:44:43 <Jannik2099> Arsen: did you know that C constexpr allows UB lmao
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Aug 01 13:44:47 <Arsen> based
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Aug 01 13:44:48 <oldfashionedcow> Jannik2099: what
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Aug 01 13:44:51 <Jannik2099> based in shit
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Aug 01 13:44:54 <oldfashionedcow> lmao
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Aug 01 13:44:57 <Arsen> please elaborate
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Aug 01 13:45:26 <Jannik2099> see https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project/issues/101499#issuecomment-2263408306
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Aug 01 13:45:27 <chat> ^ [C23] constexpr incorrectly rejects infinity and nan · Issue #101499 · llvm/llvm-project · GitHub
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Aug 01 13:45:36 <Arsen> source>:15:22: error: enumerator value for 'g' is not an integer constant
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Aug 01 13:45:36 <Arsen> 15 | enum { e, f, g = f / e };
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Aug 01 13:45:39 <Arsen> time to try in C
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Aug 01 13:45:48 <Psi-Jack> Hmm, weird... git pull on livegui media in /root takes forever to write to disk.
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Aug 01 13:45:53 <Arsen> same inn c
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Aug 01 13:46:15 <Arsen> > The C standard might not say we have to reject UB in constant expressions... but it also doesn't say we have to accept UB in constant expressions. (Probably the C standard should be fixed to be more similar to C++ in this respect.)
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Aug 01 13:46:27 <Arsen> eli's right, "throw the garbage away" is a valid B for UB
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Aug 01 13:46:36 <Jannik2099> yes ofc
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Aug 01 13:46:42 <Jannik2099> it's just not required to unlike C++
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Aug 01 13:46:51 <Jannik2099> which is a hilarious oversight at the very least
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Aug 01 13:46:58 <Arsen> happens
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Aug 01 13:47:08 <Arsen> hey jannik
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Aug 01 13:47:11 <Arsen> wanna fix a clang bug
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Aug 01 13:47:15 <Tatsh> so now that you guys are talking about C again
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Aug 01 13:47:20 <Tatsh> are people really switching to `#pragma once` over include guards?
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Aug 01 13:47:26 <Jannik2099> they were probably pressured into it by useless proprietary compiler vendors that can't analyze shit
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Aug 01 13:47:29 <Arsen> idk it seems fair to me
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Aug 01 13:47:40 <Jannik2099> Tatsh: I've never used include guards
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Aug 01 13:47:45 <Arsen> younglin
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Aug 01 13:48:02 <ztrawhcse> > Whoops, poor reading comprehension on my part; the division by zero is UB even for floating-point values
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Aug 01 13:49:08 <Arsen> is there a followup to that or
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Aug 01 13:49:17 <Jannik2099> and apparently C also allows N / 0.0f to be UB on platforms that have NaN
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Aug 01 13:49:50 <Jannik2099> the poor people worked day and night on IEE754 and this is how wg14 pays their respect
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Aug 01 13:50:06 <ztrawhcse> I did not realize that there was a possibility of dividing by zero being a defined, reasonable behavior with any datatypes
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Aug 01 13:50:12 <Jannik2099> IEEE754, even
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Aug 01 13:50:17 <Arsen> sorry bro my ESP14.5 doesn't handle ieee754
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Aug 01 13:50:35 <oldfashionedcow> Tatsh: wdym? i've always used #pragma once and basically every toolchain has supported it for a long while
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Aug 01 13:50:49 <oldfashionedcow> if i'm writing c++23 the toolchain almost certainly will support #pragma once
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Aug 01 13:50:53 <Jannik2099> ztrawhcse: that's the entire point of IEEE754 modeling not just the reals but also NaN, -0, +-inf
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Aug 01 13:51:10 <Arsen> but x/0 isn't any of those values
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Aug 01 13:51:18 <Jannik2099> no, but x / 0.0f is
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Aug 01 13:51:24 <Arsen> boo
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Aug 01 13:51:26 <Arsen> you know i meant that
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Aug 01 13:51:42 <Jannik2099> but it is NaN on most impls?
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Aug 01 13:52:08 <Arsen> i mean prob but that doesn;t sound very mathemagical to me
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Aug 01 13:52:17 <ztrawhcse> it feels like division by zero should be an issue at a higher level than NaN
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Aug 01 13:52:50 <genr8eofl> "you mean you want us to check twice!?? bloat!"
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Aug 01 13:54:02 <Jannik2099> ztrawhcse: it's how computer maths worked for over half a century
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Aug 01 13:54:08 <Jannik2099> and it's been doing us pretty good, actually
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Aug 01 13:54:21 <Viperlin> Jannik2099: ok boomer
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Aug 01 13:54:23 <Jannik2099> non-real IEEE floats are well used in numerics simulation software
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Aug 01 13:54:29 * feriman has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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Aug 01 13:55:25 <ztrawhcse> sure, I just didn't realize a literal zero counts
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Aug 01 13:55:41 <ztrawhcse> but then again, I know nothing about IEEE floats
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Aug 01 13:57:07 <Jannik2099> they are likely responsible for floating your boat
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Aug 01 13:57:17 <Jannik2099> assuming the boat was designed in the past two decades
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Aug 01 13:58:07 <genr8eofl> down with boats!
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Aug 01 13:58:08 <Jannik2099> ztrawhcse: the non-reals are helpful for when e.g. a divisor flipped to 0 due to finite precision
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Aug 01 13:58:23 <Jannik2099> it is helpful anywhere a converging value is used
|
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Aug 01 13:58:33 <Arsen> not very real aye
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Aug 01 13:58:40 <Jannik2099> it means you don't have to check & branch everywhere and can instead check if the result is real or NaN
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Aug 01 13:58:47 <Arsen> (but yeh i was surprised to see matlab and octave just.. use floats)
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Aug 01 13:59:03 <Jannik2099> without stumbling into any UB anywhere, as NaN usually remains as a "poison" value
|
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Aug 01 13:59:05 <Arsen> (that solidified floats in my mind as Good Enough For Engineering)
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Aug 01 14:01:00 <Jannik2099> basically IEEE754 models the hyperreals, where instead of "this operation isn't permitted", everything goes and is well defined, and thus everything composes seamlessly, and you end up having significantly more efficient codegen
|
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Aug 01 14:01:29 <Arsen> personally i have this big book of logarithms i use for my math
|
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Aug 01 14:01:32 <Arsen> no UB when it's on paper
|
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Aug 01 14:02:11 <Jannik2099> "UB is only on computers" mfer when they try to divide by 0 on a mechanical calculator
|
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Aug 01 14:03:00 <Arsen> it'll halt sooner or later if i stop putting wd-40 into it
|
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Aug 01 14:04:02 <Jannik2099> on that note did you know that mechanical computers were used in ww2
|
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Aug 01 14:04:37 <Arsen> yes i also watched the imitation game
|
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Aug 01 14:04:38 <Jannik2099> the later Fw190 models had computerized engine controls, and the navigation of the V2 was realized via a mechanical computer
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Aug 01 14:04:45 <Jannik2099> I didn't actually, lol
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Aug 01 14:04:49 <Arsen> you should
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Aug 01 14:04:51 <Arsen> it's p good
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Aug 01 14:04:55 <Jannik2099> I have it on my Plex
|
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Aug 01 14:05:02 <Arsen> funny turing man be funny (i am decently sure it's not historically accurate)
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Aug 01 14:05:13 <Arsen> i feel somewhat sad
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Aug 01 14:05:16 <Jannik2099> mood
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Aug 01 14:05:24 <Arsen> i misplaced my account with a massive collection of other peoples plex servers
|
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Aug 01 14:05:39 <Jannik2099> sorry, my server ain't public :P
|
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Aug 01 14:05:45 <Jannik2099> (I don't have the bandwidth)
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Aug 01 14:05:46 <ztrawhcse> I simply divide by zero on my fingers.
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Aug 01 14:05:52 <Arsen> plex - The Pascal Lex lexical analyzer generator.
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Aug 01 14:05:52 <Arsen> me when i watch movies on my Pascal Lex lexical analyzer generator.
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Aug 01 14:05:58 * Jannik2099 cuts off ztrawhcse's index finger
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Aug 01 14:06:06 <Arsen> 22:05:45 <Jannik2099> (I don't have the bandwidth)
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Aug 01 14:06:06 <Arsen> german spotted german spotted
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Aug 01 14:10:08 <lemonxah> hihi, so happy with the amdgpu on linux . . but now on windows i get driver timeouts all the time, pc going black screen and trying to play vrchat in vr just reboots the pc lol
|
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Aug 01 14:10:13 <lemonxah> also .. good day
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Aug 01 14:10:22 <oldfashionedcow> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55556200/convert-between-stdu8string-and-stdstring
|
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Aug 01 14:10:22 <chat> ^ c++ - Convert between std::u8string and std::string - Stack Overflow
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Aug 01 14:10:50 <oldfashionedcow> Arsen: so what function am I supposed to use to try and convert a span of std::uint8_t to utf8...
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Aug 01 14:10:59 <oldfashionedcow> or try converting i should say, something that throws an exception
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Aug 01 14:11:28 <Arsen> well yeah, char isn't char8_t
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Aug 01 14:11:41 <oldfashionedcow> yea but how do I try converting to it
|
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Aug 01 14:11:52 <oldfashionedcow> isn't there something that convert and then throw an exception if it is invalid utf8
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Aug 01 14:12:03 <oldfashionedcow> https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/str/fn.from_utf8.html
|
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Aug 01 14:12:03 <chat> ^ from_utf8 in std::str - Rust
|
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Aug 01 14:12:05 <oldfashionedcow> like that
|
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Aug 01 14:12:13 <Jannik2099> say it with me chat
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Aug 01 14:12:14 <Arsen> how did you even get a uint8_t stream
|
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Aug 01 14:12:14 <Jannik2099> charconv
|
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Aug 01 14:12:20 <Jannik2099> but also that lol
|
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Aug 01 14:12:57 <oldfashionedcow> from the socket right
|
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Aug 01 14:13:02 <Arsen> not charconv actually i forgor a bit ago
|
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Aug 01 14:13:05 <Arsen> charconv is numeric conversion
|
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Aug 01 14:13:07 <oldfashionedcow> i don't think the buffer is a std::byte
|
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Aug 01 14:13:20 <Arsen> (i used it to implement floats in my crappy lexer i wrote drunk at 3am)
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Aug 01 14:13:39 <Arsen> why not (also it's usually just char)
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Aug 01 14:13:47 <Arsen> (just don't assume the sign of it)
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Aug 01 14:16:19 <Arsen> anyway yeah keep it as chars then you have this beautiful(ly awful) api we inherited from C and then kept adding on as a sick joke https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/header/cuchar
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Aug 01 14:16:20 <chat> ^ Standard library header <cuchar> (C++11) - cppreference.com
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Aug 01 14:16:53 <Arsen> look at that BEAUT
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Aug 01 14:16:53 <Arsen> std::size_t mbrtoc8( char8_t* pc8, const char* s, std::size_t n, std::mbstate_t* ps );
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Aug 01 14:17:01 <Arsen> exactly what you want (can you guess which parameter is an input parrameter)
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Aug 01 14:17:41 <Arsen> i imagine on most platforms this is almost noop except that it validates the input is utf8
|
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Aug 01 14:17:42 <Arsen> as you want
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Aug 01 14:18:07 <Arsen> This section is incomplete
|
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Aug 01 14:18:07 <Arsen> Reason: no example
|
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Aug 01 14:18:13 <Arsen> bro did not even want to exemplify it, it's just that good
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Aug 01 14:19:02 <Arsen> (to be clear this sucks)
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Aug 01 14:19:26 <Arsen> (there's a reason the general solution is to pretend nothing else exists and text is just a hunk of bits until it becomes a problem)
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Aug 01 14:24:38 <Jannik2099> someone else's problem, to be specific
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Aug 01 14:25:13 <Arsen> yeah until you write a compiler
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Aug 01 14:25:15 <Arsen> (crying)
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Aug 01 14:25:19 <Jannik2099> hmm?
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Aug 01 14:25:26 <Jannik2099> I thought that's what GSoC is for
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Aug 01 14:25:47 <Psi-Jack> There we go! Got the basics of my gentoo-install.sh done to partition, format, and prepare the installation target. :D
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Aug 01 14:25:57 <Arsen> 22:25:27 <Jannik2099> I thought that's what GSoC is for
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Aug 01 14:25:57 <Arsen> real
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Aug 01 14:26:58 <leio> stefan11111: by forcing software rendering via GSK_RENDERER=cairo because you are avoiding mesa with nvidia-drivers not for doing only software, so the pink isn't your case.
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Aug 01 15:12:03 <Jannik2099> now now, where's Spawns when ya need him
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Aug 01 15:12:24 <Spawns_Carpeting> hello gentoo friends
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Aug 01 15:12:39 <qookie> speak of the devil
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Aug 01 15:13:05 <Jannik2099> hello Spawns
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Aug 01 15:13:54 <genr8eofl> Morn
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Aug 01 15:16:49 <Arsen> bro LITRALLY summoned him
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Aug 01 15:16:56 <Jannik2099> Spawns_Carpeting: new docs online https://093df5ca.pms-utils.pages.dev/
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Aug 01 15:16:57 <chat> ^ pms-utils — pms-utils documentation
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Aug 01 15:17:24 <Tatsh> oldfashionedcow yeah but show me a major library that isn't C++ using #pragma once
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Aug 01 15:17:27 <Arsen> just noticed that gcc lints /* Effective C++ rule 15. */
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Aug 01 15:17:28 <Arsen> gobless
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Aug 01 15:17:40 <Tatsh> C++ projects tend to adopt new things ASAP
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Aug 01 15:17:46 <Tatsh> C projects are a bit more conservative
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Aug 01 15:18:00 <Jannik2099> #pragma once is "new thing" ?
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Aug 01 15:18:05 <qookie> someone should just propose #pragma once for the standard for c++26
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Aug 01 15:18:26 <Spawns_Carpeting> pragma balls
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Aug 01 15:18:46 <Viperlin> Spawns_Carpeting: :O
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Aug 01 15:18:54 <Spawns_Carpeting> damn these are some good docs Jannik2099
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Aug 01 15:19:04 <Viperlin> Spawns_Carpeting: RIP
|
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Aug 01 15:19:15 <Jannik2099> they aren't lol
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Aug 01 15:19:22 <Spawns_Carpeting> i like them
|
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Aug 01 15:19:32 <Viperlin> i write awful docs
|
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Aug 01 15:19:39 <Viperlin> but they're better than no docs
|
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Aug 01 15:19:59 <Tatsh> i can't get an answer
|
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Aug 01 15:20:08 <Tatsh> i need the info
|
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Aug 01 15:22:15 <Jannik2099> Spawns_Carpeting: guess I'll just merge them to main then
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Aug 01 15:23:51 <Jannik2099> Tatsh: all the libraries I work with use include guards, actually
|
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Aug 01 15:23:55 <Jannik2099> so I can't tell ya
|
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Aug 01 15:24:25 <Jannik2099> oh nvm, pybind11 does use pragma once
|
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Aug 01 15:25:43 * waldolemmer (~waldolemm@user/waldolemmer) has joined
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Aug 01 15:25:54 <Arsen> 23:18:05 <qookie> someone should just propose #pragma once for the standard for c++26
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Aug 01 15:25:54 <Arsen> do it quick
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Aug 01 15:26:09 <Arsen> if you finish it within a few weeks you can defend the paper in the next WG21 meeting in poland
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Aug 01 15:26:15 <Arsen> (i forgot where in poland it is but it is in poland)
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Aug 01 15:26:54 <Tatsh> oh good to know Jannik2099
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Aug 01 15:27:15 <qookie> Arsen: it's in wrocław apparently
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Aug 01 15:27:20 <ztrawhcse> qookie: my understanding was the committee hates the idea of pragma once, because it assumes that sources are filesystem backed or something
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Aug 01 15:27:25 <negril> echo "gob #pragma once plox" >> wg21-c++26_proposal.md
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Aug 01 15:27:36 <Tatsh> ztrawhcse that's a good point
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Aug 01 15:27:43 <Jannik2099> POLAND MENTIONED
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Aug 01 15:27:48 <Arsen> it doesnt really assume that tho ztrawhcse
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Aug 01 15:27:49 * ztrawhcse has kicked Tatsh from #gentoo-chat (source code is files goshdarnit)
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Aug 01 15:27:50 <negril> ANSCHLUSS
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Aug 01 15:27:56 <qookie> poland mountain
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Aug 01 15:27:59 * Tatsh (quassel@47.199.139.95) has joined
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Aug 01 15:28:17 <Arsen> we already know that each line in a TU is associated with a filename, so I see no reason why that can't be the sole key
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Aug 01 15:28:17 <Tatsh> Jannik2099 what's wrong with Poland?
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Aug 01 15:28:29 <Tatsh> germans hate poland, and poles hate germans back
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Aug 01 15:29:47 <Arsen> i think he was excited
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Aug 01 15:29:48 <Arsen> not hateful
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Aug 01 15:30:16 <Jannik2099> <country> mentioned is a meme lol
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Aug 01 15:30:27 <Jannik2099> https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/brazil-mentioned
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Aug 01 15:30:28 <Tatsh> i met an old pole. he said on the train germans ransacked his luggage
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Aug 01 15:30:28 <chat> ^ Brazil Mentioned | Know Your Meme
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Aug 01 15:30:30 <ztrawhcse> MEME MENTIONED
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Aug 01 15:30:31 <Arsen> yeah but only when country is like poland or serbia or brazil
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Aug 01 15:30:38 <Arsen> albania and bosnia work too
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Aug 01 15:30:40 <Arsen> and turkey
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Aug 01 15:30:46 <Arsen> like
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Aug 01 15:30:58 <Viperlin> oh no not the memes
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Aug 01 15:31:05 <Viperlin> you kids and your memes
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Aug 01 15:31:14 <negril> okay old men, back to bed
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Aug 01 15:31:16 <Arsen> if someone shouted THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND MENTIONED it just wouldn't be the vibe yknow
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Aug 01 15:31:22 <Viperlin> negril: get off my lawn
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Aug 01 15:31:33 <Tatsh> that's a dumb meme
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Aug 01 15:31:36 <negril> Like you can afford lawn!
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Aug 01 15:31:44 <Viperlin> damnit i can't
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Aug 01 15:31:48 <Tatsh> negril. i have lawn
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Aug 01 15:31:56 <Viperlin> ok boomer
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Aug 01 15:32:02 <negril> Tatsh: are you polish?
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Aug 01 15:32:04 <Tatsh> no
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Aug 01 15:32:07 <Jannik2099> Arsen: most of SEA works well too
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Aug 01 15:32:10 <Viperlin> like mr sheen?
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Aug 01 15:32:16 <Tatsh> i'm just saying i met an old pole and he would always mention that story again and again
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Aug 01 15:32:20 <Tatsh> he would forget he already told me it
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Aug 01 15:32:46 <Spawns_Carpeting> >old pole
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Aug 01 15:33:04 <Tatsh> probably dead now
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Aug 01 15:33:07 <Tatsh> haven't tried to find him
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Aug 01 15:33:19 <negril> My grandmas family still owns a house in Poland or so they did in 1956...
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Aug 01 15:33:42 <Viperlin> does it have working roof
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Aug 01 15:33:54 <Tatsh> negril does it have lawn?
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Aug 01 15:34:10 <indigo> Ah Poland
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Aug 01 15:34:15 <Tatsh> do they even use toilets in poland?
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Aug 01 15:34:20 <Viperlin> land of poo
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Aug 01 15:34:21 <Tatsh> or is it just a hole?
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Aug 01 15:34:24 <indigo> A bunch of my friends got laid off and replaced with a team in Poland
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Aug 01 15:34:34 <negril> Viperlin: that's india
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Aug 01 15:34:37 <negril> (or canada now)
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Aug 01 15:34:47 <Viperlin> negril: i typo'd, Po is a teletubby
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Aug 01 15:34:52 <Alfr> Arsen, maybe that's better: s/NORTHERN //
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Aug 01 15:34:58 <negril> Tatsh: yeah, they move there in the 19th century as farmers
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Aug 01 15:34:59 <Spawns_Carpeting> qookie: Tatsh thinks people in poland dont have toilets? do you want to say anything
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Aug 01 15:35:04 <Arsen> uh oh
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Aug 01 15:35:06 <Arsen> thatcher detected
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Aug 01 15:35:12 <Viperlin> woah
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Aug 01 15:35:14 <Tatsh> i'm not serious
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Aug 01 15:35:22 <Tatsh> europe has always had toilets
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Aug 01 15:35:39 <Viperlin> thatcher has been invoked
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Aug 01 15:35:43 <negril> some sort of toilet
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Aug 01 15:35:52 <negril> if you count outhouses as toilets
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Aug 01 15:36:29 <Viperlin> arguably the wall holes were toilets
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Aug 01 15:36:39 <ztrawhcse> Poland is not JK Rowling's LSD experience
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Aug 01 15:36:54 <Tatsh> in the US, when pioneers went west, they would dig a whole, and the women would get in a circle while one woman would squat and do their business
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Aug 01 15:37:04 <Tatsh> dig a hole*
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Aug 01 15:37:07 <Tatsh> a whole hole!
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Aug 01 15:37:12 <Arsen> they dug the whole
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Aug 01 15:37:19 <Tatsh> i'm sure the men dug the hole
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Aug 01 15:37:19 <negril> the whole whole?
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Aug 01 15:37:45 <Jannik2099> wow impressive, so the pioneers invented holes
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Aug 01 15:37:55 <Viperlin> Tatsh: they tried similar on mount everest but after all the years of tourists climbing it there's enough frozen poop for a poopalanche
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Aug 01 15:38:15 <negril> Viperlin: imagine if that landed on your lawn
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Aug 01 15:38:22 <ztrawhcse> Viperlin: worst way in the world to die
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Aug 01 15:38:23 <Viperlin> I DON'T HAVE A LAWN
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Aug 01 15:38:29 <negril> Viperlin: AWWW
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Aug 01 15:38:32 <ztrawhcse> buried in a poopalanche
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Aug 01 15:38:33 <Tatsh> yeah so it's more likely to land on your house
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Aug 01 15:38:39 <Viperlin> ztrawhcse: i dunno poopalance is pretty up there for unique ways to die
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Aug 01 15:38:53 <ztrawhcse> unique isn't a good thing...
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Aug 01 15:38:57 <Tatsh> i don't want to see all the dead bodies on everest or K2 so i'll never climb it
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Aug 01 15:38:58 <Viperlin> i know a guy who was killed by a mobile library
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Aug 01 15:39:00 <Viperlin> no joke
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Aug 01 15:39:16 <Viperlin> he'd have laughed his ass off at that if he could
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Aug 01 15:39:20 <Arsen> the earth was perfectly flat until these meddling kids invented digging and now we have hills and lakes and stuff
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Aug 01 15:39:24 <Tatsh> don't you mean arse?
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Aug 01 15:39:25 <Alfr> ztrawhcse, bludgeoning death, should be frozen up there.
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Aug 01 15:39:34 <Arsen> # of expected passes 18
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Aug 01 15:39:34 <Arsen> # of unexpected failures 82
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Aug 01 15:39:34 <Arsen> damn i broke coroutines
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Aug 01 15:39:37 <Viperlin> Tatsh: i converted to american for niceness
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Aug 01 15:39:44 <negril> Viperlin: when you were young did they have two or three classes in the train? And do you remember the open toilets in trains? What if your lawn was underneath a bridge and the poo would land on your lawn?
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Aug 01 15:39:46 <Tatsh> we only talk en-GB in here
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Aug 01 15:39:54 <Tatsh> talk in*
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Aug 01 15:39:56 <Tatsh> speak*
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Aug 01 15:40:03 <Viperlin> negril: what the f*ck is a train?
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Aug 01 15:40:06 <indigo> Arsen: you missed a few metrics, like # of unexpected passes
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Aug 01 15:40:17 <Arsen> 0
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Aug 01 15:40:22 <Arsen> dejagnu doesn't print those
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Aug 01 15:40:24 <negril> Viperlin: the thing that takes you to the mine
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Aug 01 15:40:25 <Tatsh> coroutines in python?
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Aug 01 15:40:27 <Arsen> (if they're zsero)
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Aug 01 15:40:30 <Arsen> Tatsh: no, c++
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Aug 01 15:40:51 <Viperlin> what do thatcher and jimmy savvile have in common?
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Aug 01 15:40:57 <Viperlin> wait i can't tell that one here
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Aug 01 15:41:00 <negril> They are both your friends?
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Aug 01 15:41:02 <Arsen> are they both in hell
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Aug 01 15:41:05 <Tatsh> 'yes so the coroutine in my python code is not working.' 'how can python have Go routines?'
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Aug 01 15:41:06 <Arsen> thatcher certainly is
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Aug 01 15:41:07 <Tatsh> bdts
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Aug 01 15:41:28 <negril> you are fan of both?
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Aug 01 15:41:40 <Viperlin> !
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Aug 01 15:41:44 <Tatsh> thatcher is dead?
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Aug 01 15:41:50 <Jannik2099> clap
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Aug 01 15:41:58 <negril> Yes the wicked witch is dead
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Aug 01 15:42:06 <Tatsh> why calling her that
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Aug 01 15:42:10 <Viperlin> clue; punchline involves miners
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Aug 01 15:42:12 <Viperlin> anyway
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Aug 01 15:42:20 <Tatsh> she was friends with Reagan and Reagan was a nice man who just wanted the best for america
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Aug 01 15:42:45 * mikehu44 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
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Aug 01 15:43:26 <Viperlin> found the ayn rand fanboy
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Aug 01 15:43:34 <Tatsh> no can't you tell when i'm sarcastic?
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Aug 01 15:43:47 <Jannik2099> sarcasm is not permitted in objectivism
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Aug 01 15:43:47 <Tatsh> ayn rand took from the social services she claimed to hate
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Aug 01 15:43:47 <negril> Tatsh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0TuXLrvyE4
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Aug 01 15:43:49 <chat> ^ ► YouTube :: Margaret Thatcher's funeral - Ding Dong, The Witch is Dead! :: Duration: 03:34 :: Views: 257,637 :: Uploader: maestro66uk :: Uploaded: 2013-04-17 :: 4,981 likes
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Aug 01 15:44:19 <Viperlin> Tatsh: i was just following on
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Aug 01 15:44:24 <negril> https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-22145306
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Aug 01 15:44:24 <chat> ^ Ding Dong! The Witch Is Dead enters chart at two - BBC News
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Aug 01 15:44:28 * TheteSigma (~TheteSi@2600:1700:674:101e:c852:588a:6ce8:a89d) has joined
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Aug 01 15:44:35 <Viperlin> i actually watched the 3-4h adaption of her best novel
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Aug 01 15:44:40 <Viperlin> it was frickin awful
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Aug 01 15:44:50 <Tatsh> she would be proud. brexit
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Aug 01 15:44:52 <negril> Thatcher had a Novell?
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Aug 01 15:44:56 <Tatsh> you guys did it!
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Aug 01 15:44:58 <Viperlin> no ayn rand
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Aug 01 15:45:16 <Viperlin> although i like adam curtis so i have 0 taste and a love for weird docuseries
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Aug 01 15:45:41 <Arsen> Stop The World I Wanna Get Off With You is actually a song about garbage collection
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Aug 01 15:45:43 <Jannik2099> Viperlin: oh my god you actually watched that movie
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Aug 01 15:45:46 <Jannik2099> I am so sorry
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Aug 01 15:45:48 <Tatsh> i think Reagan was actually just a really big fan of Thatcher
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Aug 01 15:45:56 <Viperlin> Jannik2099: i knew what i was getting into
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Aug 01 15:46:04 <Viperlin> i just wanted to understand
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Aug 01 15:46:33 <Viperlin> it explained 80-00 politics
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Aug 01 15:46:42 <Viperlin> free market will save us bs
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Aug 01 15:46:49 <ztrawhcse> it was a fitting punishment, Viperlin
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Aug 01 15:48:08 <Viperlin> well good news we're back to the 20s/30s
|
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Aug 01 15:48:15 <Viperlin> it's all gonna happen again
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Aug 01 15:54:01 <sam_> genr8eofl: tbh i think its good theyre researching that
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Aug 01 15:54:02 <Tatsh> one project at my work is odd. they want to use camelCase filenames
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Aug 01 15:54:03 <sam_> but i think its a pipedream kind of project
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Aug 01 15:54:03 <Tatsh> how dare
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Aug 01 15:54:43 <Viperlin> WhaTsWroNgWiThCameElcaSE
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Aug 01 15:55:37 <Tatsh> typescript projects use alloneword.ts or all-one-word.ts usually but not this project
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Aug 01 15:55:51 <Tatsh> typescript projects generally use 2 spaces, but this one is using 4
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Aug 01 15:56:10 <Tatsh> i'm against this deviation from the mainstream
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Aug 01 15:58:21 <Tatsh> also in terms of that pseudo-team, one of their projects is using pnpm and another is using yarn
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Aug 01 15:59:49 <stefan11111> https://github.com/stefan11111/shim-creator/tree/main
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Aug 01 15:59:49 <chat> ^ GitHub - stefan11111/shim-creator: small utility to create shims
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Aug 01 16:00:18 <stefan11111> https://github.com/stefan11111/various-shims
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Aug 01 16:00:19 <chat> ^ GitHub - stefan11111/various-shims: Various empty files
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Aug 01 16:00:36 <Arsen> >small utility to create shims >shims: various empty files
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Aug 01 16:00:36 <Arsen> touch?
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Aug 01 16:00:50 <stefan11111> Arsen: look at the source
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Aug 01 16:01:33 <Arsen> if (fscanf(f, "%c", &c) == EOF) {
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Aug 01 16:01:38 <Viperlin> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shim_(spacer)
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Aug 01 16:01:39 <chat> ^ A shim is a thin and often tapered or wedged piece of material, used to fill small gaps or spaces between objects. Shims are typically used in order to support, adjust for better fit, or provide a level surface.
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Aug 01 16:01:48 <Arsen> getchar died
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Aug 01 16:02:14 <stefan11111> It parses the output of nm -D to create a source file with empty functions
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Aug 01 16:03:05 <stefan11111> It's not perfect since you can't use T in function names but good enough
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Aug 01 16:04:00 <stefan11111> actually, scrap that. you can use T in function names
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Aug 01 16:04:00 <Arsen> whar
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Aug 01 16:04:04 * colonia_duck has quit (Quit: WeeChat 4.3.4)
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Aug 01 16:04:25 <Jannik2099> lmao
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Aug 01 16:04:31 <Tatsh> i get the idea
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Aug 01 16:04:44 <Tatsh> shim, why not call it a stub generator?
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Aug 01 16:04:51 <Tatsh> stefan11111 your name is shim now
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Aug 01 16:05:05 <qookie> Tatsh: presumably because the intended use is as a starting point for writing compatibility shims
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Aug 01 16:05:08 <Jannik2099> your "shim generator" is wrong, on that note
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Aug 01 16:05:17 <Tatsh> a shim (as used in javascript) is something that matches the actual behaviour of what is missing
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Aug 01 16:05:21 <Jannik2099> it will break API on a void function
|
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Aug 01 16:05:24 <Jannik2099> *ABI
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Aug 01 16:05:30 <Tatsh> that too it doesn't handle the return type
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Aug 01 16:05:50 <qookie> returning values is for chumps
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Aug 01 16:05:52 <Tatsh> you should accept <return type> <name> in your file, and not allow fancy syntax
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Aug 01 16:06:11 <Tatsh> which means you can't handle returning a function pointer without a lot more code
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Aug 01 16:06:25 <stefan11111> Tatsh: how do you get the return type from nm -D?
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Aug 01 16:06:53 <Arsen> demangle it :^)
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Aug 01 16:06:58 <Arsen> speaking of
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Aug 01 16:07:03 <Tatsh> you can't iirc but someone could edit the file that gets inputted into your generator
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Aug 01 16:07:03 <Arsen> Jannik2099: did you know that c++filt takes arguments
|
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Aug 01 16:07:05 <Arsen> not just a pipe
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Aug 01 16:07:08 <Jannik2099> no
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Aug 01 16:07:09 <Arsen> (cc qookie also)
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Aug 01 16:07:12 <Arsen> well now you do
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Aug 01 16:07:19 <Arsen> ~$ c++filt _Znw
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Aug 01 16:07:19 <Arsen> operator new
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Aug 01 16:07:19 <Tatsh> this is very similar to what nic.pl does in Theos for iOS
|
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Aug 01 16:07:34 <Tatsh> but it can get return types because objective-c functions keep that info in their signature
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Aug 01 16:07:34 <qookie> Arsen: yeah
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Aug 01 16:07:44 <Jannik2099> hmm
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Aug 01 16:07:46 <Arsen> (i am slowly learning the itanium mangling api)
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Aug 01 16:07:56 <qookie> i love name mangling
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Aug 01 16:08:06 <Jannik2099> why do I feel voltage on the metal casing of my USB-C plug
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Aug 01 16:08:06 <Arsen> (i reconstructed op new(void*) into _ZnwPv in my head)
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Aug 01 16:08:12 <Arsen> oh i do too
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Aug 01 16:08:17 <Arsen> it sparks me constantly
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Aug 01 16:08:17 <qookie> _ZN3foo3barEv
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Aug 01 16:08:22 <Jannik2099> yes
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Aug 01 16:08:25 <Tatsh> Jannik2099 it's not working properly
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Aug 01 16:08:25 <genr8eofl> goo.gl shutting down the link shortener is kind of terrible
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Aug 01 16:08:25 <Arsen> i assume my ground is actually live
|
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Aug 01 16:08:33 <Arsen> yeah you dont say
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Aug 01 16:08:35 <Jannik2099> I can't feel it on my finger but I can on my belly or on my face
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Aug 01 16:08:38 <Arsen> they promised they wont also afaik
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Aug 01 16:08:42 <qookie> all that matters is that it's ground in relation to the 5v line :^)
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Aug 01 16:08:45 <Arsen> yes same (why are you putting your charger there)
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Aug 01 16:08:48 <genr8eofl> they responded to backlash?
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Aug 01 16:08:53 <Tatsh> anyway
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Aug 01 16:09:00 <Arsen> genr8eofl: no, like a decade ago when they made it no longer usable
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Aug 01 16:09:04 <Tatsh> it's a storm outside. just had a brownout
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Aug 01 16:09:09 * zwr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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Aug 01 16:09:14 <Jannik2099> guess that's what I get when using a non-grounded charger
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Aug 01 16:09:28 <Tatsh> my cats especially like to stay near me when they hear thunder
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Aug 01 16:09:36 <qookie> i wonder what would be worse, if they just kill it, or if they published the whole url database for everyone to see
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Aug 01 16:09:49 * TheteSigma has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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Aug 01 16:10:34 <Tatsh> genr8eofl it is terrible because many links will break. however, the service hasn't been available for a while iirc so 99% of the links could be expired or point to 404
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Aug 01 16:11:15 <genr8eofl> yeah but the old links are still ones you need
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Aug 01 16:11:17 <Tatsh> you guys remember Bump? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_(application) they probably have links in there and those obviously 404 now
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Aug 01 16:11:17 <chat> ^ Bump was an iOS and Android mobile app that enabled smartphone users to transfer contact information, photos and files between devices. In 2011, it was #8 on Apple's list of all-time most popular free iPhone apps, and by February 2013...
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Aug 01 16:13:32 <Arsen> this is fun i can delete a line of code and prevent gcc from emitting a function
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Aug 01 16:14:25 <Jannik2099> you wouldn't!
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Aug 01 16:14:59 <Tatsh> biggest vulnerability is a bad release of gcc for us
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Aug 01 16:15:19 <stefan11111> finally got to cleaning up my package.provided a bit:
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Aug 01 16:15:22 <Jannik2099> all gcc releases are bad by virtue of not passing their own test suite
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Aug 01 16:15:23 <stefan11111> # wgetpaste /etc/portage/profile/package.provided
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Aug 01 16:15:24 <stefan11111> Your paste can be seen here: https://bpa.st/OEYA
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Aug 01 16:15:24 <chat> ^ View paste OEYA
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Aug 01 16:15:51 <Arsen> 00:15:22 <Jannik2099> all gcc releases are bad by virtue of not passing their own test suite
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Aug 01 16:15:51 <Arsen> i mean real but it's also not quite that black and white
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Aug 01 16:15:57 <Arsen> most of the failing tests fail because they're gdb version dependent
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Aug 01 16:16:01 <Jannik2099> yes but I just wanted to say the funny
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Aug 01 16:16:05 <Tatsh> stefan11111 does any of it work yet?
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Aug 01 16:16:19 <snowhawk> helllo
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Aug 01 16:16:21 <Tatsh> also, you could instead make your app-alternative ebuilds
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Aug 01 16:16:24 <stefan11111> Tatsh: does any of what work?
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Aug 01 16:16:28 <Tatsh> your 'stubs'
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Aug 01 16:16:28 <Arsen> finally got to cleaning up my package.provided a bit:
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Aug 01 16:16:28 <Arsen> ~$ wc -l /etc/portage/profile/package.provided
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Aug 01 16:16:28 <Arsen> wc: /etc/portage/profile/package.provided: No such file or directory
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Aug 01 16:16:40 <stefan11111> Tatsh: all of them
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Aug 01 16:16:41 * superpou has quit (Quit: Leaving.)
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Aug 01 16:16:46 <Tatsh> mine is empty too Arsen
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Aug 01 16:16:50 <Arsen> :)
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Aug 01 16:16:51 <Tatsh> it's a file for extreme circumstances
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Aug 01 16:17:03 <Tatsh> sadly on my server it's required for the HomeAssistant overlay
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Aug 01 16:17:08 <Alfr> Tatsh, it'd be too sad if those would unsuccessfully do nothing.
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Aug 01 16:17:11 <stefan11111> $ wc -l /etc/portage/profile/package.provided
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Aug 01 16:17:12 <stefan11111> 57 /etc/portage/profile/package.provided
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Aug 01 16:17:18 <stefan11111> $ wc -l /etc/portage/profile/package.provided.bak
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Aug 01 16:17:19 <stefan11111> 104 /etc/portage/profile/package.provided.bak
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Aug 01 16:17:22 <Tatsh> but that's because of the author's strictness/sticklerness
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Aug 01 16:18:06 <Tatsh> yuck https://git.edevau.net/onkelbeh/HomeAssistantRepository/src/branch/master/etc/portage/profile/package.provided
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Aug 01 16:18:07 <chat> ^ HomeAssistantRepository/package.provided at master - HomeAssistantRepository - Gitea: Git with a cup of tea
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Aug 01 16:18:13 <stefan11111> most of what went is comments and outdated ruby stuff
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Aug 01 16:18:24 <stefan11111> but for a few I made actual ebuilds
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Aug 01 16:18:26 <Arsen> but why do you do this
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Aug 01 16:18:38 <indigo> Why not make ebuilds instead of package.provided
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Aug 01 16:18:42 <stefan11111> Arsen: do what?
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Aug 01 16:18:49 <Tatsh> stefan11111 perceives he will get a few more cpu cycles with his smaller library replacements
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Aug 01 16:18:53 <stefan11111> clean up my package.provided?
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Aug 01 16:18:56 <Tatsh> he thinks gettext is too heavy
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Aug 01 16:19:10 <stefan11111> Tatsh: you'd be surprised how heavy it is
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Aug 01 16:19:20 <stefan11111> and it also pulls 50 packages with it
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Aug 01 16:19:35 <stefan11111> try doing a qlop on it
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Aug 01 16:19:38 <Tatsh> gettext is actually good for stubifying, but at a code level
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Aug 01 16:19:45 <Tatsh> you could just define _ to return the same value back
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Aug 01 16:19:47 <Alfr> Arsen, you had to ask. :\
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Aug 01 16:20:28 <Arsen> 00:19:44 <Tatsh> you could just define _ to return the same value back
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Aug 01 16:20:28 <Arsen> this is what AM_GNU_GETTEXT does fwiw
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Aug 01 16:20:53 * zwr (~zwr@189.80.71.215) has joined
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Aug 01 16:21:14 * vitaly-zdanevich has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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Aug 01 16:21:24 <stefan11111> Tatsh: good idea, I probably should patch /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gi18n.h to do that
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Aug 01 16:22:06 <Tatsh> if only glib had a LEAN_AND_MEAN macro
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Aug 01 16:23:16 <Tatsh> genr8eofl gas discount at circle K https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/circle-k-fuel-day-pop-up-orlando-gas-discount
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Aug 01 16:23:17 <chat> ^ Orlando residents can score major gas discounts for one day only: Here's how
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Aug 01 16:23:22 <Tatsh> it's US-wide
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Aug 01 16:23:53 <genr8eofl> gas is below $3 here
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Aug 01 16:23:55 <Tatsh> you have 30 minutes
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Aug 01 16:23:59 <genr8eofl> hmm
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Aug 01 16:24:06 <Tatsh> i am gonna top up mine right now
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Aug 01 16:24:33 <genr8eofl> i wont make it
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Aug 01 16:24:37 * chronovore (~chronovor@2a06:5902:7c0:d00:c949:d408:cbbc:921e) has joined
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Aug 01 16:25:06 <Spawns_Carpeting> c is the most secure coding language
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Aug 01 16:25:07 <genr8eofl> also the nearest circle K here is the convenience store, the gas station is exxon
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Aug 01 16:25:34 <indigo> Spawns_Carpeting: does that make bchs the most secure web framework
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Aug 01 16:25:37 <indigo> https://learnbchs.org/
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Aug 01 16:25:39 <chat> ^ BCHS: BSD, C, httpd, SQLite
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Aug 01 16:25:42 <Spawns_Carpeting> yes
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Aug 01 16:28:52 <Jannik2099> Spawns_Carpeting: now that the documentation is mainlined, thou must rewrite gentoolkit
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Aug 01 16:29:01 <Jannik2099> well, I still need to implement Profile querying
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Aug 01 16:29:12 <stefan11111> finished making the patch:
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Aug 01 16:29:12 <stefan11111> $ wgetpaste /etc/portage/patches/dev-libs/glib/no-i18n.patch
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Aug 01 16:29:12 <stefan11111> Your paste can be seen here: https://bpa.st/33AA
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Aug 01 16:29:13 <chat> ^ View paste 33AA
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Aug 01 16:29:26 <Spawns_Carpeting> Jannik2099: hell eyah
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Aug 01 16:29:43 <Spawns_Carpeting> ive been losing carpet lisp steam
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Aug 01 16:29:53 <Spawns_Carpeting> so working on pms util is likely
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Aug 01 16:30:14 <Spawns_Carpeting> im trying to write my type checker but its kind of grindy
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Aug 01 16:30:21 <Jannik2099> well yeah
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Aug 01 16:30:27 <Jannik2099> it's a nontrivial topic
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Aug 01 16:30:36 <Jannik2099> and you didn't read up on type checking algorithms
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Aug 01 16:30:38 <Jannik2099> :P
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Aug 01 16:30:59 <oldfashionedcow> back to trying to package swift for gentoo....
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Aug 01 16:31:03 <oldfashionedcow> godammit apple update your clang
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Aug 01 16:31:25 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: C is as secure as the code you write
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Aug 01 16:31:44 <Arsen> you're right
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Aug 01 16:31:47 <oldfashionedcow> wrong
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Aug 01 16:31:49 <Arsen> in the most useless, literal sense
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Aug 01 16:31:51 <oldfashionedcow> c is the most secure coding language
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Aug 01 16:31:53 <Tatsh> Remember when sqlite didn't give the woke mob the CoC they wanted? Ballz man
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Aug 01 16:31:57 <oldfashionedcow> it is close to the metal
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Aug 01 16:32:05 <oldfashionedcow> except for those woke aliasing rules
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Aug 01 16:32:22 <Alfr> oldfashionedcow, why would you want that garbage?
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Aug 01 16:32:33 <oldfashionedcow> Alfr: yes indeed
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Aug 01 16:32:36 <oldfashionedcow> why would anyone want aliasing rules
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Aug 01 16:32:42 <Jannik2099> if C is close to the metal, then what about Apple's Metal?
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Aug 01 16:32:42 <oldfashionedcow> it's a liberal agenda to slow down ur pc
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Aug 01 16:32:45 <Arsen> how dare the compiler make a reasoanble assumption
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Aug 01 16:32:46 <Jannik2099> checkmate metallurgists
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Aug 01 16:32:48 <Alfr> oldfashionedcow, hint: They treat RC as proper memory management, and that is simply broken.
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Aug 01 16:32:49 <oldfashionedcow> Jannik2099: gotem
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Aug 01 16:32:58 <indigo> Gotta be careful not to get infected by the woke mind virus
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Aug 01 16:33:05 <Jannik2099> oh no
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Aug 01 16:33:11 <oldfashionedcow> yes
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Aug 01 16:33:11 <Alfr> oldfashionedcow, that was about Swift.
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Aug 01 16:33:15 <Jannik2099> you have triggered Alfr ranting over cyclic GC structures again
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Aug 01 16:33:20 <Jannik2099> hide your graphs
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Aug 01 16:33:21 <oldfashionedcow> Alfr: oh swift? it's a decent programming language
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Aug 01 16:33:31 <oldfashionedcow> I wish we used it more in the linux land
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Aug 01 16:34:30 * bluearc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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Aug 01 16:34:44 <Alfr> Jannik2099, only because reference counting does not solve the general problem, as it's claimed.
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Aug 01 16:34:55 * bluearc_ (~quassel@108-89-25-237.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) has joined
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Aug 01 16:35:40 <Alfr> Jannik2099, and no, weak references are not a solution, because often times there simply isn't a A owns B relationship.
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Aug 01 16:36:16 <Spawns_Carpeting> Jannik2099: im doing bi-directional type checking
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Aug 01 16:36:21 <Spawns_Carpeting> i read up a little bit
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Aug 01 16:36:24 <oldfashionedcow> I thik Alfr how doesn't it solve the problem?
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Aug 01 16:36:48 * bousillor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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Aug 01 16:36:55 <Spawns_Carpeting> its just a lot of work to cover all of the il nodes and then i have to decide how to give it a good interface
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Aug 01 16:37:00 <Spawns_Carpeting> i want to do gradual typing
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Aug 01 16:37:58 <Alfr> Jannik2099, and any GC does not have that problem, but, I guess, that 50+ year old news still didn't reach Apple ...
|
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Aug 01 16:38:06 <Spawns_Carpeting> the bi-directional type checking algorithm is really trivial, you basically just walk the ast and recursively "deduce" the types of subexprs and compare them based on the context
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Aug 01 16:38:34 <Spawns_Carpeting> im walking the tree il rather than ast
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Aug 01 16:38:37 <Alfr> oldfashionedcow, reference counting cannot collect cyclic structures.
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Aug 01 16:38:39 <Spawns_Carpeting> but its similar enough
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Aug 01 16:39:05 <oldfashionedcow> Alfr: could you give me an example of such structure? are we talking about recursive structures?
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Aug 01 16:39:09 <Tatsh> Wow genr8eofl there's a line here !
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Aug 01 16:39:17 <Spawns_Carpeting> oldfashionedcow: graphs, double linked lists
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Aug 01 16:39:21 <oldfashionedcow> yea
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Aug 01 16:39:25 <Spawns_Carpeting> really even singly linked lists
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Aug 01 16:39:48 <oldfashionedcow> why does reference counting struggle with it Alfr?
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Aug 01 16:40:31 <Spawns_Carpeting> its because of the way the ref counter works, when there is a cycle, the ref count will never reach zero
|
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Aug 01 16:40:42 <oldfashionedcow> interesting
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Aug 01 16:40:47 <Alfr> oldfashionedcow, assume you have to things each referencing the other, then their reference count will always be at least one; thus they can never be collected.
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Aug 01 16:40:49 <oldfashionedcow> Spawns_Carpeting: I should try making a refcounter implementation
|
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Aug 01 16:41:06 <Spawns_Carpeting> imagine an A and a B, A holds a ref to B, so the ref count of B is 1, B holds a ref to A, so A's ref count is 1
|
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Aug 01 16:41:18 <Spawns_Carpeting> but they keep each other alive
|
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Aug 01 16:41:25 <genr8eofl> its only $925 for a giant silicon ingot https://www.ebay.com/itm/176338023946
|
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Aug 01 16:41:26 <chat> ^ Silicon Ingot - 205mm diameter | 27.6kgs | 16.5" long | eBay
|
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Aug 01 16:42:20 <qookie> Brand
|
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|
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Aug 01 16:42:20 <qookie> Crystal
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Aug 01 16:42:24 <Spawns_Carpeting> oldfashionedcow: you can use "trial deletion" to solve this problem tho
|
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Aug 01 16:42:26 <qookie> Model
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Aug 01 16:42:26 <qookie> Boule End Piece
|
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Aug 01 16:42:38 <oldfashionedcow> Spawns_Carpeting: i should try making a reference counter
|
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Aug 01 16:42:38 <Spawns_Carpeting> but trial deletion requires the ability to trace references
|
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Aug 01 16:42:41 <oldfashionedcow> going to read on them
|
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Aug 01 16:42:52 <Tatsh> Also people are being pricks and getting stuff from the convenience store knowing they are holding the line up
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Aug 01 16:42:54 <Spawns_Carpeting> oldfashionedcow: theres a part in the rust nomicon that teaches you how to make Arc
|
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Aug 01 16:42:59 <oldfashionedcow> ohh that's cool
|
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Aug 01 16:43:10 <Spawns_Carpeting> https://doc.rust-lang.org/nomicon/arc-mutex/arc.html
|
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Aug 01 16:43:10 <chat> ^ Arc - The Rustonomicon
|
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Aug 01 16:43:17 <Spawns_Carpeting> its pretty each tbh
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Aug 01 16:43:19 <stefan11111> genr8eofl: what do you use a silicon ingot for?
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Aug 01 16:43:20 <Spawns_Carpeting> easy*
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Aug 01 16:44:16 <Alfr> stefan11111, with a 27.6 kg one? Likely bludgeoning his adversaries to death.
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Aug 01 16:44:49 <genr8eofl> im seeing new it goes for Price: USD 150.0 /kg plus shipping
|
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Aug 01 16:44:54 <Spawns_Carpeting> the basic idea is that you have two structs, Rc and RcInner, Rc holds onto a NonNull<RcInner<T>>, and RcInner has a field T to store data, and a field "count" that stores the number of refs. when the outer Rc gets its clone method called, it bumps the ref counter up one, and returns a new Rc that shares the same RcInner
|
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Aug 01 16:44:58 <genr8eofl> you can make chips
|
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Aug 01 16:45:43 <Spawns_Carpeting> and then you impl Drop, and when you drop, you dec the ref count, and if the count reaches zero, you deallocate the inner RcInner
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Aug 01 16:45:52 <Spawns_Carpeting> its like 100 lines of code to implement
|
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Aug 01 16:46:11 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: what do you code in?
|
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Aug 01 16:46:20 <stefan11111> C? lisp?
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Aug 01 16:47:06 <Alfr> genr8eofl, try potatoes?
|
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Aug 01 16:47:39 <Spawns_Carpeting> stefan11111: lots of languages but mostly rust and lisp
|
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Aug 01 16:48:01 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: rust?
|
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Aug 01 16:48:04 <genr8eofl> whoa i found some 385mm diameter ones
|
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Aug 01 16:48:05 <Spawns_Carpeting> yes
|
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Aug 01 16:48:13 <genr8eofl> thats 15" wafers
|
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Aug 01 16:48:14 <stefan11111> why rust?
|
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Aug 01 16:48:35 <Spawns_Carpeting> i like it, it has a nice type system and nice features like language level sum types and pattern matching
|
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Aug 01 16:48:53 <Spawns_Carpeting> it just has a lot of "quality of life" features
|
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Aug 01 16:49:34 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: do you not have to jump through flaming hoops to apease the compiler?
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Aug 01 16:49:51 <Spawns_Carpeting> sometimes but not typically
|
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Aug 01 16:50:23 <Spawns_Carpeting> that can be annoying though yes
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Aug 01 16:50:33 <stefan11111> spawns: how would you write something like strcpy in rust?
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Aug 01 16:50:36 * istewart (~istewart@2600:6c52:477f:9a70::d25) has joined
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Aug 01 16:51:38 <Spawns_Carpeting> probably use the built in slice copying method
|
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Aug 01 16:51:44 <Spawns_Carpeting> methods*
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|
Aug 01 16:51:46 <Spawns_Carpeting> or a loop
|
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Aug 01 16:52:50 <Spawns_Carpeting> there are build in ways to copy memory from one place to another, theres a built in slice type that lets you copy from slice to slice, theres also unsafe ptr::copy which is roughly like memcpy
|
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Aug 01 16:53:46 <Tatsh> genr8eofl: I almost missed my chance
|
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Aug 01 16:53:47 <stefan11111> spawns: I don't think you can do while (*dst++ = *src++); in rust because of pointers. what loop were you thinking of?
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Aug 01 16:53:52 <Tatsh> The line was quite long
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Aug 01 16:54:13 <Spawns_Carpeting> in rust you have something called a slice type that lets you work with slices of memory
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Aug 01 16:54:17 <qookie> i mean rust does have raw pointers
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Aug 01 16:54:25 <Spawns_Carpeting> it does have raw pointers also yes
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Aug 01 16:54:27 <qookie> just that you need to use unsafe to be able to use them
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Aug 01 16:54:31 <genr8eofl> nice
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Aug 01 16:54:37 <Spawns_Carpeting> but you dont need unsafe to impl strcpy
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Aug 01 16:55:28 <stefan11111> spawns: so instead of reading one byte at a time you read one slice at a time?
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Aug 01 16:57:03 <Spawns_Carpeting> https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2021&gist=a031f466f55bdaa085e142a87ebcd23b
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Aug 01 16:57:03 <chat> ^ Rust Playground
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Aug 01 16:57:25 <Spawns_Carpeting> slices have the length included with the pointer to the data btw
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Aug 01 16:57:32 <Spawns_Carpeting> so its not quite equal to strcpy
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Aug 01 16:57:45 <Spawns_Carpeting> null terminated arrays arent really a thing in rust
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Aug 01 16:58:08 <Spawns_Carpeting> if the slices are not of equal length copy_from_slice panics
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Aug 01 16:58:15 <hairu> https://matrix.xwaretech.net/_matrix/media/v3/download/xwaretech.net/srzvSJktHNnMripvfJbFuRVw/E9C57FB6-527C-48C8-A931-F77F2C642314.jpeg
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Aug 01 16:58:16 <chat> ^ [image/jpeg] (171.5KiB)
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Aug 01 16:58:23 <hairu> My Bluetooth headset
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Aug 01 16:59:01 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: wdym panics? returns error?
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Aug 01 16:59:11 <Spawns_Carpeting> panic means the program aborts basically
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Aug 01 16:59:16 <Spawns_Carpeting> it can abort or unwind
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Aug 01 16:59:27 <Spawns_Carpeting> but the program crashes basically
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Aug 01 16:59:33 <stefan11111> you can't catch errors in rust?
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Aug 01 16:59:36 <Arsen> yes
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Aug 01 16:59:37 * genr8eofl returns EOF
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Aug 01 16:59:40 <Arsen> in rust, no programs error ever
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Aug 01 16:59:45 <Spawns_Carpeting> you can, but you dont do errors with panics
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Aug 01 16:59:51 <Spawns_Carpeting> only unrecoverable errors
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Aug 01 17:00:03 <Spawns_Carpeting> you use a regular type to represent errors like in c
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Aug 01 17:00:08 <genr8eofl> my android is unrecoverable
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Aug 01 17:00:09 <Spawns_Carpeting> you return a Result type
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Aug 01 17:00:38 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: if (dst->len != src->len) { return -1; }
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Aug 01 17:00:47 <stefan11111> seems pretty recoverable to me
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Aug 01 17:01:06 <stefan11111> so in rust, strings encode length and are called slices?
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Aug 01 17:01:38 <genr8eofl> stefan learns rust ?
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Aug 01 17:02:26 <genr8eofl> tick tock its rust o clock
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Aug 01 17:03:01 * monkfish (~monkfish@user/monkfish) has left (= "")
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Aug 01 17:03:18 * stefan1111 (~stefan111@2a02:2f0d:b110:ed00:f900:19f2:8457:6770) has joined
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Aug 01 17:03:55 <Arsen> 01:00:38 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: if (dst->len != src->len) { return -1; }
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Aug 01 17:03:55 <Arsen> well no, that's not recoverable unless the code is ready to handle the error
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Aug 01 17:04:13 <Spawns_Carpeting> stefan11111: https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2021&gist=135156b93756c14f9e07718a5f03c898
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Aug 01 17:04:13 <chat> ^ Rust Playground
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Aug 01 17:04:17 <Arsen> if the result leaves room for error, it is recoverable
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Aug 01 17:04:21 <Arsen> there's surely some try_access or smth
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Aug 01 17:04:39 <Spawns_Carpeting> stefan11111: borrowed arrays and strings are slices yeah
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Aug 01 17:04:54 <Spawns_Carpeting> you can have slices of any type just like you can have arrays of any type in C
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Aug 01 17:05:07 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, do you have to pay interest on those?
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Aug 01 17:05:15 <Spawns_Carpeting> lol
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Aug 01 17:06:14 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: can you get arrays without encoded legth, like in C?
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Aug 01 17:06:30 <Spawns_Carpeting> yes, in rust thats the ptr type
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Aug 01 17:06:44 <Spawns_Carpeting> but using the ptr type requires unsafe blocks
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Aug 01 17:06:53 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: I mean, to not allocate space for the length
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Aug 01 17:07:12 <Spawns_Carpeting> other than using a raw pointer no
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Aug 01 17:07:24 <Arsen> 01:06:53 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: I mean, to not allocate space for the length
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Aug 01 17:07:24 <Arsen> what
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Aug 01 17:07:27 <Spawns_Carpeting> well, there is an CString type
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Aug 01 17:07:27 <stefan11111> only at compile time, like char str[100]; sizeof(str)
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Aug 01 17:07:30 <Arsen> what does that even mean
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Aug 01 17:07:33 <Spawns_Carpeting> stefan11111: ah
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Aug 01 17:07:43 <Spawns_Carpeting> yeah there is an array type where the size is part of the type
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Aug 01 17:07:49 <Arsen> std::size(str) is far cooler than sizeof(str)
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Aug 01 17:08:02 <stefan11111> Arsen: is that c++ or rust?
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Aug 01 17:08:06 <Arsen> c++
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Aug 01 17:08:19 <Spawns_Carpeting> the dest variable in my playground example is roughly equal to char[5]
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Aug 01 17:08:41 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: so sizeof(dest) == 5?
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Aug 01 17:08:45 <Spawns_Carpeting> yup
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Aug 01 17:08:57 <stefan11111> and no length is encoded then
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Aug 01 17:09:07 <Arsen> you need to stop thinking about that
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Aug 01 17:09:13 <Spawns_Carpeting> the length is encoded into its methods at compile time
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Aug 01 17:09:23 <Arsen> god bless monomorphization
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Aug 01 17:09:46 <Spawns_Carpeting> so dest[x] calls a method generated specifically for the char[5]
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Aug 01 17:09:52 <Spawns_Carpeting> char[5] type
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Aug 01 17:09:55 <stefan11111> Spawns_Carpeting: so the length is only at compile time, not someting like struct string { char str[100]; int length; };
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Aug 01 17:09:59 <Spawns_Carpeting> exactly yeah
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Aug 01 17:10:10 * mk_sk119 has quit (Quit: Leaving)
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Aug 01 17:10:56 <stefan11111> strcpy(source, &mut &mut dest[..])
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Aug 01 17:11:03 <stefan11111> there are 2 &mut's here?
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Aug 01 17:11:09 <Spawns_Carpeting> thats a typo
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Aug 01 17:11:12 <Spawns_Carpeting> whoops
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Aug 01 17:11:38 <stefan11111> >Spawns_Carpeting so dest[x] calls a method generated specifically for the char[5]
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Aug 01 17:11:54 <stefan11111> so it declares a new symbol for every size of array you pass to it?
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Aug 01 17:12:15 <Spawns_Carpeting> for the strcpy function?
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Aug 01 17:12:18 <stefan11111> yes
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Aug 01 17:12:23 <Spawns_Carpeting> if so no, i coerce the array into a slice at runtime
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Aug 01 17:12:31 <Spawns_Carpeting> thats what the &dest[..] bit does
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Aug 01 17:13:06 <Spawns_Carpeting> &dest[..] gets a pointer + length fat pointer to the underlying array and passes that to strcpy
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Aug 01 17:13:21 <stefan11111> >fn strcpy(source: &[u8], dest: &mut [u8]) -> Result<(), ()> {
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Aug 01 17:13:27 <stefan11111> where are the types here?
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Aug 01 17:13:59 <Spawns_Carpeting> i gave it an empty type just for example purposes
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Aug 01 17:14:07 <Spawns_Carpeting> () is the unit type
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Aug 01 17:14:27 <Spawns_Carpeting> you could put any type there
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Aug 01 17:19:11 <Spawns_Carpeting> stefan11111: this one doesnt coerce to a slice https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=stable&mode=debug&edition=2021&gist=5aadfcb9175aac0ef5214c7aa52d9a11
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Aug 01 17:19:12 <chat> ^ Rust Playground
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Aug 01 17:21:36 <stefan1111> Spawns: so you have to tell it the size
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Aug 01 17:22:33 <stefan1111> is that like void foo(char arr[100]){}, where the array gets value copied?
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Aug 01 17:23:30 <Spawns_Carpeting> yeah you have to tell it the size
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Aug 01 17:23:41 <Spawns_Carpeting> in this case the array gets passed by ref
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Aug 01 17:24:21 <Spawns_Carpeting> an array passed by ref and a slice are slightly different
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Aug 01 17:24:24 <Spawns_Carpeting> kind of confusing
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Aug 01 17:24:35 * Code_Bleu has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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Aug 01 17:31:52 <ezzieyguywuf> i might play overwatch tonight!
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Aug 01 17:31:56 <ezzieyguywuf> 🎉
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Aug 01 17:33:40 <stefan1111> .ping
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Aug 01 17:33:40 <chat> pong
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Aug 01 17:34:43 <Viperlin> i once met a genius, at a free bar he paid the bar staff to serve him first at the start of the night
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Aug 01 17:35:02 * sun_runner (~sun_runne@65.99.15.61) has joined
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Aug 01 17:38:57 <thrice> oh yeah, open bar at a wedding or something? Tip large on the first drink
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Aug 01 17:46:50 <Viperlin> got more drinks faster than anyboy and handed them out
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Aug 01 17:48:11 <username234> Viperlin: but it's a bitcoin-only bar!
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Aug 01 17:48:32 <Viperlin> there's no emoticon for what i'm feeling
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Aug 01 17:58:17 * Code_Bleu (~Code_Bleu@user/code-bleu/x-6939963) has joined
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Aug 01 18:00:00 <oldfashionedcow> username234: https://paste.rs/T48B2.sh rate the awk
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Aug 01 18:00:00 <chat> ^ Source Code | T48B2 | Rocket Powered Pastebin
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Aug 01 18:01:18 <repoman> WHO
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Aug 01 18:01:59 <username234> oldfashionedcow: line 17 makes no sense
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Aug 01 18:02:01 <username234> D-
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||
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Aug 01 18:02:34 * username234 never awards grades above a C
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Aug 01 18:02:52 <oldfashionedcow> username234: jannik would give me a c++ :(
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Aug 01 18:03:02 <oldfashionedcow> also how does line 17 make no sense!
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Aug 01 18:03:05 <username234> I don't do ++/-- scoring
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Aug 01 18:03:10 <username234> REST BLUE RESET
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Aug 01 18:03:11 <oldfashionedcow> this is just NIH grep -rsin because i couldn't figure out grep -rsin
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Aug 01 18:03:17 <oldfashionedcow> oh wait
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Aug 01 18:03:22 <oldfashionedcow> i removed the colon inbetween that
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Aug 01 18:03:28 <oldfashionedcow> wait no
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Aug 01 18:03:32 <oldfashionedcow> username234: check the format strings
|
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Aug 01 18:03:39 <oldfashionedcow> it's a colon inbetween them
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Aug 01 18:03:44 <oldfashionedcow> printf "%s%s%s%s:%s%s%d%s%s%s:%s %s%s%s%s%s\n"
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Aug 01 18:04:10 <username234> D----------------
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Aug 01 18:04:14 <username234> for that format string
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Aug 01 18:04:15 * pastry_eater has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
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Aug 01 18:04:32 <oldfashionedcow> omg
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Aug 01 18:04:36 <oldfashionedcow> jannik would give a c++ username234, this is ridiculous!
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Aug 01 18:04:45 <oldfashionedcow> sam would give me a PERL
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Aug 01 18:05:12 <username234> well sam_ has too many PERLs. He's been giving them away as candy...
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Aug 01 18:05:20 * username234 feels really sorry for the kids who bit into them...
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Aug 01 18:05:54 <oldfashionedcow> :(
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Aug 01 18:05:55 <hairu> Marbles
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Aug 01 18:05:58 <username234> oldfashionedcow: whats' the point of this anyway?
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Aug 01 18:06:07 <oldfashionedcow> username234: swift build system is shit cmake
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Aug 01 18:06:11 <oldfashionedcow> one sec lemme paste
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Aug 01 18:06:18 <username234> oldfashionedcow: do it in C
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Aug 01 18:06:23 <oldfashionedcow> lmoa
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Aug 01 18:06:33 <oldfashionedcow> username234: basically grep didn't appear to like my negative lookbehinds
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Aug 01 18:06:35 <oldfashionedcow> so i juts did it in awk
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Aug 01 18:06:42 <username234> oldfashionedcow: oh and you never finished the challenge I gave you some time ago...
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Aug 01 18:06:59 <oldfashionedcow> oh god
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Aug 01 18:07:04 <username234> well there's 2 you haven't finished
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Aug 01 18:07:04 <oldfashionedcow> username234: https://dpaste.com/7HJEBMX4J
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Aug 01 18:07:11 <username234> 1 is the ascii diamond in assembly
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Aug 01 18:07:12 <oldfashionedcow> note the --target=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu
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Aug 01 18:07:48 <username234> the other is an IRC client in freestanding C++
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Aug 01 18:08:12 <oldfashionedcow> wait
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Aug 01 18:08:15 <oldfashionedcow> i need swift help!
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Aug 01 18:08:17 <oldfashionedcow> username234: and the find: http://dpaste.com/9AZX3VHJG
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Aug 01 18:08:28 <oldfashionedcow> i'm so confrused what is setting the target
|
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Aug 01 18:08:33 <oldfashionedcow> and more importantly how do i change it
|
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Aug 01 18:09:10 <oldfashionedcow> username234: https://github.com/swiftlang/swift/issues/60690#issuecomment-1858917004 that was the only sort of relevant thing i found but not really
|
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Aug 01 18:09:12 <chat> ^ Debian packaging support · Issue #60690 · swiftlang/swift · GitHub
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Aug 01 18:12:20 <username234> oldfashionedcow: I'd think the fact it wants libgcc and libgcc_s is more concerning
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Aug 01 18:13:12 <Kangie> https://www.anandtech.com/show/21496/intel-bleeds-red-plans-15-workforce-layoff-and-10b-cuts-for-2025
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Aug 01 18:13:13 <chat> ^ Intel Bleeds Red, Plans 15% Workforce Layoff and $10B Cuts For 2025
|
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Aug 01 18:13:40 <username234> oldfashionedcow: do you have gcc installed?
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Aug 01 18:13:45 <genr8eofl> ooof
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Aug 01 18:13:50 <Kangie> This will definitely not result in more things like self eating CPUs
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Aug 01 18:13:56 <genr8eofl> bloody intel
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Aug 01 18:14:02 <Kangie> Also I guess bye bye Intel gpus
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||
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Aug 01 18:14:09 <Kangie> Kinda sad about that. We needed a third player
|
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Aug 01 18:14:32 <thrice> intel deserves what they are getting, they suck
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Aug 01 18:14:47 <username234> oldfashionedcow: /usr/lib/llvm/18/bin/clang --target=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -Wno-unknown-warning-option -Werror=unguarded-availability-new -fno-stack-protector CMakeFiles/cmTC_3acf6.dir/testCCompiler.c.o -vvv
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Aug 01 18:15:12 * progress-bot (~bot@119-18-36-251.771224.bne.static.aussiebb.net) has joined
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Aug 01 18:15:12 <progress-bot> Selected Gentoo Tracker Update:
|
||
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Aug 01 18:15:12 <progress-bot> Today we are at 89% LTO bugs resolved
|
||
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Aug 01 18:15:15 <progress-bot> and 65% Modern C bugs resolved
|
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Aug 01 18:15:16 <username234> although... wth...
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Aug 01 18:15:17 <username234> Kangie:
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Aug 01 18:15:32 <oldfashionedcow> username234: i don't
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Aug 01 18:15:36 <username234> Kangie: why is the target triple x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu?
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Aug 01 18:15:38 <oldfashionedcow> remember musl/clang
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Aug 01 18:15:54 <username234> s/triple/tuple/
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Aug 01 18:15:54 <chat> username234 meant to say: Kangie: why is the target tuple x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu?
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Aug 01 18:16:33 <username234> oldfashionedcow: output of /usr/lib/llvm/18/bin/clang --target=x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu -Wno-unknown-warning-option -Werror=unguarded-availability-new -fno-stack-protector CMakeFiles/cmTC_3acf6.dir/testCCompiler.c.o -vvv
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Aug 01 18:16:35 <username234> ?
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Aug 01 18:16:49 <username234> then try it again but replace 'unknown' with 'pc'
|
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Aug 01 18:18:23 <Kangie> https://cdn.imgpaste.net/2024/08/02/StDGMq.jpg
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Aug 01 18:18:23 <chat> ^ [image/jpeg] (1.5MiB)
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Aug 01 18:18:40 <Kangie> u234: pretty sure it's just hysterical raisins
|
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Aug 01 18:19:40 <Kangie> Those batteries are the ones I ripped outta discarded, non-reusable, vapes.
|
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Aug 01 18:20:19 <ezzieyguywuf> so is hyprland like...good or trash? b/c I feel like the last time I mentioned it in here it was getting some bad press
|
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Aug 01 18:20:20 <Kangie> https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/441
|
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Aug 01 18:20:21 <chat> ^ Accept `pc` in place of `unknown` and `unknown` in place of `pc` for `x86_64` and `i?86` targets · Issue #441 · rust-lang/compiler-team · GitHub
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Aug 01 18:20:32 <Kangie> Though that's rust it might help
|
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Aug 01 18:21:12 <username234> Kangie: swift in cow's case. Personally, I'd install gcc and see if that solves the issue
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Aug 01 18:23:24 <Kangie> Oh
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Aug 01 18:23:34 <Kangie> u234: it's the "vendor" field
|
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Aug 01 18:23:45 <Kangie> https://wiki.osdev.org/Target_Triplet
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Aug 01 18:23:45 <chat> ^ Target Triplet - OSDev Wiki
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Aug 01 18:27:04 <username234> Kangie: yeah I know what it is. I'm just confused why it's set to 'unknown' when Gentoo switched to using 'pc' some time ago
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Aug 01 18:27:05 * larrythecow (~Cow@user/cow) has joined
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Aug 01 18:27:25 * username234 looks to the left to see if anyone is watching...
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Aug 01 18:27:30 * username234 then looks to the right...
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Aug 01 18:27:33 <Kangie> No idea!
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Aug 01 18:27:40 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to username234
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Aug 01 18:27:52 * username234 takes a few more glances...
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Aug 01 18:28:07 * username234 has kicked larrythecow from #gentoo-chat (cow-kicking for the win!)
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Aug 01 18:28:45 <ezzieyguywuf> from https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wlroots/wlroots/-/releases "linux-drm-syncobj-v1 protocol for explicit synchronization (note, renderer
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Aug 01 18:28:46 <chat> ^ Releases · wlroots / wlroots · GitLab
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Aug 01 18:28:48 <ezzieyguywuf> and backend changes are scheduled for the next version).
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Aug 01 18:29:00 <ezzieyguywuf> " does this mean I can't quite expect this to Just Work yet with wlroots/sway?
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Aug 01 18:29:51 <ezzieyguywuf> ah, sway is still on wlroots 0.17.0 even, dang
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Aug 01 18:33:04 <Spawns_Carpeting> Jannik2099: check out my type checker https://bpa.st/MPNQ
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Aug 01 18:33:05 <chat> ^ View paste MPNQ
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Aug 01 18:33:14 <Spawns_Carpeting> its coming along but theres a lot more nodes to cover
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Aug 01 18:35:04 <larrythecow> lmao
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Aug 01 18:35:13 <Spawns_Carpeting> hi xx
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Aug 01 18:35:18 <thrice> "parallel installation of different wlroots versions" is interesting
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Aug 01 18:35:18 <larrythecow> Kangie: the vendor field?
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Aug 01 18:40:36 <ezzieyguywuf> if I plug in a new monitor, do I need to restart X for it to be recognized?
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Aug 01 18:45:47 <Ninpo> maybe? Though I'd hope there's enough running to recognise the connection
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Aug 01 18:46:24 <ezzieyguywuf> I mean so far it doesn't seem to Just Work 😭
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Aug 01 18:51:14 <username234> ezzieyguywuf: maybe you have the cable on backwards?
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Aug 01 18:52:57 <ezzieyguywuf> username234: ?
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Aug 01 18:53:03 <ezzieyguywuf> username234: I think the cable only goes in one way
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Aug 01 18:53:09 <ezzieyguywuf> and also it works when I plug it into my laptop
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Aug 01 18:53:56 <ezzieyguywuf> I see "ago 01 20:40:02 zenobia org.freedesktop.Notifications[1782303]: failed to create display" in journalctl, though not sure if that's pertinent
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Aug 01 18:54:09 <Ninpo> sounds like it could be
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Aug 01 18:54:17 <ezzieyguywuf> lol maybe
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Aug 01 18:54:35 <ezzieyguywuf> I would restart X but I want Overwatch to keep downloading
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Aug 01 18:54:44 <Ninpo> have you googled "failed to create display" plugging monitor in linux
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Aug 01 18:55:09 <ezzieyguywuf> I'm amused that I'm getting frustrated at how "long" it's taking to download the 52 GB - I feel like my wireless 6e network can go faster than this
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Aug 01 18:55:20 <ezzieyguywuf> Ninpo: I tried, nothing obvious popped up
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Aug 01 19:00:29 <Skunky> ezzieyguywuf: does xrandr see the "new" display? you might need to um... output auto something something.
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Aug 01 19:04:43 <ezzieyguywuf> xrandr sees it!
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Aug 01 19:04:52 <username234> > I think the cable only goes in one way
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Aug 01 19:05:08 <username234> ah see. that's where you've overlooking the obvious! You plugged the wrong connector into the wrong slot! ;-P
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Aug 01 19:05:40 <username234> ezzieyguywuf: bad joke aside, I have seen that issue actually occur before ;-)
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Aug 01 19:05:56 <username234> cable on backwards so things didn't work.
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Aug 01 19:05:58 <ezzieyguywuf> 😅 that was a solid joke don't worry
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Aug 01 19:06:56 <ezzieyguywuf> after moving desks at work once I thought my dmi (dvx? dpi? whatever the heck the non hdmi one is) cable had broken off into my monitor, so I spent an hour trying to scoop the broken pieces out so I could plug in a fresh cable. turns out I scooped out the plug that was attached to the monitor lol
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Aug 01 19:06:59 <username234> I'm not sure if you have to restart X to get it to see multiple monitors or not.
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Aug 01 19:07:12 <ezzieyguywuf> I have a feeling a magical xrandr incantation will get this going
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Aug 01 19:07:15 <ezzieyguywuf> just need to figure it out
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Aug 01 19:07:21 <username234> ezzieyguywuf: vga? dvi? dp? usb-c???
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Aug 01 19:07:33 <username234> THUNDERBOLT???!
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Aug 01 19:07:51 <genr8eofl> shouldnt you know the types of cables and connectors on a PC
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Aug 01 19:07:59 <ezzieyguywuf> HAH! "Download: 580.62 Mbit/s" I knew my network could do better (I've seen this higher). so why the heck is steam being so slow? could it be overwatch's servers are just that bad? ugh!
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Aug 01 19:08:06 <ezzieyguywuf> username234: I think dvi!
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Aug 01 19:08:13 <ezzieyguywuf> the rectangularish looking one
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Aug 01 19:08:25 <username234> ezzieyguywuf: div-a, dvi-d, dvi-i, dvi-dual-link??????!
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Aug 01 19:08:45 <ezzieyguywuf> peak 1.4 mb/s from steam 😭
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Aug 01 19:08:51 * username234 thinks that prehaps there mightest be too many video cables...
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Aug 01 19:09:09 <ezzieyguywuf> whichever acronym means DisplayPort
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Aug 01 19:09:10 <zedmatrix> yea you forgot usb-c
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Aug 01 19:09:14 <username234> ezzieyguywuf: which channel are you on?
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Aug 01 19:09:15 <ezzieyguywuf> that's what my monitors OSD says
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Aug 01 19:09:19 <username234> zedmatrix: I mentioned that one
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Aug 01 19:09:33 <username234> ezzieyguywuf: dp
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Aug 01 19:09:37 <Spawns_Carpeting> username234 u never finished my challenge
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Aug 01 19:09:38 <ezzieyguywuf> username234: #gentoo-chat among others
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Aug 01 19:09:56 <username234> Spawns_Carpeting: I couldn't get carpet lisp to compile
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Aug 01 19:10:08 <Spawns_Carpeting> enable the nightly use flag silly
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Aug 01 19:10:24 <username234> is that safe to do?
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Aug 01 19:10:27 <Spawns_Carpeting> yes
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Aug 01 19:10:32 * username234 removes channel operator status from username234
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Aug 01 19:10:38 <Spawns_Carpeting> at least afaik
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Aug 01 19:10:47 <username234> that's not comforting...
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Aug 01 19:11:07 <Spawns_Carpeting> it shouldnt change anything that wasnt already using nightly features
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Aug 01 19:11:14 * Alfr will patiently wait for CL to land in ::gentoo.
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Aug 01 19:11:15 <username234> Spawns_Carpeting: could you refeactor to remove the nightly pieces?
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Aug 01 19:11:16 <ztrawhcse> Kangie: did you see we went up today by a percent
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Aug 01 19:11:31 <Spawns_Carpeting> username234: i need at least 1 of the features pretty badly
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Aug 01 19:11:35 <Spawns_Carpeting> which is let chains
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Aug 01 19:11:43 <Spawns_Carpeting> the rest i could
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Aug 01 19:11:43 <username234> what does let chains do?
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Aug 01 19:11:59 <ztrawhcse> 20:20 <ezzieyguywuf> so is hyprland like...good or trash? b/c I feel like the last time I mentioned it in here it was getting some bad press
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Aug 01 19:12:19 <Spawns_Carpeting> it allows you to chain if let Pattern = a && let Pattern = b
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Aug 01 19:12:28 <ztrawhcse> ezzieyguywuf: the author of hyprland continues to be a fool and a hack that learned how to code by writing minecraft mods
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Aug 01 19:12:38 <ztrawhcse> ezzieyguywuf: https://github.com/hyprwm/xdg-desktop-portal-hyprland/issues/242
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Aug 01 19:12:39 <chat> ^ xdg-desktop-portal-hyprland deleting files it should not be touching. · Issue #242 · hyprwm/xdg-desktop-portal-hyprland · GitHub
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Aug 01 19:12:44 <Spawns_Carpeting> have you ever used "if let" in rust? if so its that but with the ability to chain them
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Aug 01 19:13:08 <Spawns_Carpeting> it would be a huge pain to do a lot of what i need to do in the compiler without it
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Aug 01 19:13:47 <Spawns_Carpeting> the rest of the nightly features could be removed fairly easily though
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Aug 01 19:13:51 <ztrawhcse> ezzieyguywuf: tl;dr hyprland was executing the contents of your browser window page title as shell code, so if you navigated to a page on a forum that says "do not use $(rm -rf /*)" then it would execute that, including running the rm -rf
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Aug 01 19:14:05 <username234> Spawns_Carpeting: would it? cond_var = condition; if condition { let ...; let ...; let ...; let...; }
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Aug 01 19:14:06 <ezzieyguywuf> ztrawhcse: ah, yes now I'm remembering
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Aug 01 19:14:08 <Spawns_Carpeting> its okay i was just teasing you about the challenge
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Aug 01 19:14:12 <ezzieyguywuf> yarg
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Aug 01 19:14:24 <ezzieyguywuf> maybe I'll give kde another nother look, I think it has explicit sync already
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Aug 01 19:14:33 <username234> or if scoping is an issue...
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Aug 01 19:14:46 <Spawns_Carpeting> you could technically replace it with that but it becomes tough
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Aug 01 19:15:07 <Spawns_Carpeting> theres a let chain macro also that i could use
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Aug 01 19:15:34 <ztrawhcse> ezzieyguywuf: this is because hyprland devs did not realize it's possible to run commands using execve(), so they just use system(std::format("WINDOWTITLE={} my-useful-command", window_title))
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Aug 01 19:15:40 <username234> Spawns_Carpeting: and iirc you co do something like #if let_chains_allowed ... #else ... #endif but in rust syntax
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Aug 01 19:15:46 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, what should happen after the first value evaluates to false?
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Aug 01 19:16:00 <username234> Spawns_Carpeting: and then when it finally gets stabilized, you could delete the 'else' branch.
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Aug 01 19:16:05 <Spawns_Carpeting> the next branch is taken Alfr
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Aug 01 19:16:14 <ezzieyguywuf> whoot! `xrandr --output HDMI-0 --auto --left-of DP-0` and display 2 is on!
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Aug 01 19:16:23 <ezzieyguywuf> now I have to finally learn how multiple displays work with i3 lol
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Aug 01 19:16:57 <ezzieyguywuf> this will be so great, I can play overwatch AND chat with y'all at the same time 🤣
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Aug 01 19:16:59 <Spawns_Carpeting> this is what would need rewritten https://paste.gentoo.zip/qyoXglZa
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Aug 01 19:17:00 <chat> ^ [text/plain]
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Aug 01 19:17:05 <ezzieyguywuf> the modern technologies are so grand
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Aug 01 19:17:15 <Spawns_Carpeting> maybe i could replace it with a match
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Aug 01 19:17:41 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, so, programmer must expect that no bindings have been established in the alternative branch?
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Aug 01 19:17:56 <Spawns_Carpeting> the bindings go away
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Aug 01 19:18:07 <Spawns_Carpeting> the bindings are scoped for each branch
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Aug 01 19:18:39 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, hm ... we might be talking about different things.
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Aug 01 19:19:58 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, what I'm hinting at is, that if-let does not short circuit evaluation.
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Aug 01 19:20:42 <Spawns_Carpeting> why doesnt it
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Aug 01 19:21:05 <Spawns_Carpeting> in rust it does as far as i know
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Aug 01 19:21:42 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, usual definition for it is: if-let ((var form)*) body
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Aug 01 19:22:08 <violet> hey anyone had problem with emojis rendering really really big in uhh.... dunst notifications and labwc title bar
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Aug 01 19:22:25 <violet> oddly specific i know but i see nothing about this in my searches
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Aug 01 19:22:55 <Spawns_Carpeting> Alfr: rust if let is a good bit different
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Aug 01 19:22:59 <Spawns_Carpeting> its a pattern matching thing
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Aug 01 19:23:26 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, ah ...
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Aug 01 19:24:07 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, but if you want the short circuiting behavior, there's when-let*.
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Aug 01 19:24:17 <Spawns_Carpeting> oh i see what you mean now
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Aug 01 19:24:59 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, and in the above body should be the true and false branches. ;)
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Aug 01 19:29:47 <Spawns_Carpeting> Alfr: here is rust if let https://play.rust-lang.org/?version=nightly&mode=debug&edition=2021&gist=1940e17501a06a6c24c926fe99e4cfbe
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Aug 01 19:29:48 <chat> ^ Rust Playground
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Aug 01 19:29:50 <Spawns_Carpeting> an example
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Aug 01 19:35:08 <Spawns_Carpeting> it lets you do pattern matching but with an "if" rather than a "match"
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Aug 01 19:51:16 <Alfr> Spawns_Carpeting, hm ... not sure, how the binding syntax is supposed to work there.
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Aug 01 19:52:05 <ezzieyguywuf> hooray, 338 mbps now from steam!
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Aug 01 19:52:26 <ezzieyguywuf> not sure what really changed but I'm happy 😁
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Aug 01 20:04:03 <ezzieyguywuf> hooray overwatch works!
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Aug 01 20:04:15 <ezzieyguywuf> but I forgot that audio broke on my install last time I tried kde 😭
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Aug 01 20:09:05 <ezzieyguywuf> ah I think b/c pipewire
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Aug 01 20:23:15 <Tatsh> overwatch the game
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Aug 01 20:42:36 <Kangie> Hi chat!
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Aug 01 20:45:46 <JayF> hallo kangioooo
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Aug 01 20:46:21 <genr8eofl> o/
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Aug 01 20:46:33 <Ninpo> sup Kangie
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Aug 01 20:54:41 <Kangie> I am dealing with more Fortran!
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Aug 01 20:54:42 <Kangie> But
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Aug 01 20:54:55 <Kangie> It is Fortran that I already had building on a two year older version of the code
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Aug 01 20:55:08 <Kangie> Theoretically I just drop my new meson build files into this source tree and hit 'go'
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Aug 01 21:00:30 <ztrawhcse> you can take a wild stab at it with meson init --language=fortran *.f
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Aug 01 21:01:28 <shamoe> Anyone using https://github.com/kspalaiologos/bzip3 ?
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Aug 01 21:01:28 <chat> ^ GitHub - kspalaiologos/bzip3: A better and stronger spiritual successor to BZip2.
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Aug 01 21:03:47 <ztrawhcse> seems a bit tone-deaf to create such a thing
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Aug 01 21:04:05 <Suncat> shamoe, is there any difference from "zip" ?
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Aug 01 21:04:23 <ztrawhcse> I mean in theory it exists, gentoo packages it, etc
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Aug 01 21:05:20 <shamoe> Apperently its outperforming other algorithms at compressed size
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Aug 01 21:05:25 <shamoe> "zip" is just normal gzip iirc
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Aug 01 21:37:25 <MiraSkies> what is all ur opinions on ebuilds becoming interpreted by portage or written in python opposed to being reliant on bash
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Aug 01 21:37:28 <MiraSkies> it would make it more portable
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Aug 01 21:45:08 <genr8eofl> you want to create a system to replace bash but in the end we will still have a lot of bash
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Aug 01 21:50:13 <gemiller2> MiraSkies: Python more portable? Surely you jest. Which version of python? 2.6, 2.7, 3.a?
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Aug 01 21:50:41 <gemiller2> As long as you only ask bash to comply with POSIX sh, you have over 20 years of compatibility.
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Aug 01 21:51:59 <genr8eofl> you need bash because theres 20 years of needing bash
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Aug 01 21:52:08 <ztrawhcse> MiraSkies: portage does in fact interpret ebuilds
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Aug 01 21:52:22 <MiraSkies> genr8eofl: hmm good point
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Aug 01 21:52:25 <ztrawhcse> portage has extensive code for piping to and from bash
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Aug 01 21:52:37 <genr8eofl> i took it to mean stricter interpretation or more limited
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Aug 01 21:53:16 <MiraSkies> i havent researched the way portage handles it atm, but it sounds nice to be able to seperate portage from bash. that way it can work on systems which arent bash
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Aug 01 21:53:31 <MiraSkies> have bash rather :P
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Aug 01 21:53:41 <genr8eofl> highly unlikely
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Aug 01 21:53:46 <ztrawhcse> I don't really see the point in changing, anyway. Using .py files instead of ebuilds will just lead to people having to write gigantic code strings of bash in their build recipes
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Aug 01 21:53:47 <genr8eofl> good to know thats your goal so i can stop responding now
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Aug 01 21:54:08 <ztrawhcse> since build recipes are completely designed around shelling out to build systems...
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Aug 01 21:54:30 <gemiller2> Does portage need bash? Or just sh?
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Aug 01 21:54:33 <ztrawhcse> MiraSkies: bash is a core system language used by so much software other than portage. It's not happening, ever, under any circumstances.
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Aug 01 21:54:47 <MiraSkies> i see
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Aug 01 21:54:53 <ztrawhcse> and yes -- PMS defines the use of bash, not just sh
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Aug 01 21:55:06 <gemiller2> Any time I approve a bash script, it needs to un on just sh
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Aug 01 21:55:12 <genr8eofl> my next idea is transforming our eclasses into meson style python to TRY to solidify a form of standardized API rather than treat it as ever-mutable state of bash
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Aug 01 21:55:28 <genr8eofl> I think that could be tackled within reason
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Aug 01 21:56:26 <gemiller2> "equery d bash" does not show portage as mandatory
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Aug 01 21:56:46 <zen_desu> https://i.imgflip.com/30r1af.png yeah putting embedded bash in python is horrible
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Aug 01 21:56:46 <chat> ^ [image/png] (307.8KiB)
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Aug 01 21:56:54 <gemiller2> If portage depends on bashisms, that should be fixed.
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Aug 01 21:57:05 <zen_desu> i honestly agree with that
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Aug 01 21:57:10 <genr8eofl> zen_desu: yeah i remember Smiley always asking how to run bash from python
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Aug 01 21:57:18 <genr8eofl> subprocess.run and weird stdout flags
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Aug 01 21:57:36 <indigo> What's wrong with having bash as a dependency
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Aug 01 21:57:40 <genr8eofl> the thing is its possible, just with way more wrappers and handling, the type thats already in portage
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Aug 01 21:57:40 <zen_desu> yeah i uh have written thousands of lines of python dedicated to generating bash with lots of bash strings embeded in python lists as a result
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Aug 01 21:57:47 <MiraSkies> i didnt mean embeded bash in python btw thats just silly :P I meant actual python
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Aug 01 21:57:52 <gemiller2> bash is not on a lot of OS.
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Aug 01 21:58:03 <indigo> Ahh ok. That makes sense, to make portage more portable
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Aug 01 21:58:09 <MiraSkies> ^^
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Aug 01 21:58:10 <indigo> Fair 'nuff
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Aug 01 21:58:24 <gemiller2> bash is not standardized. sh is
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Aug 01 22:00:35 <ztrawhcse> gemiller2: mysterious, it does for me
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Aug 01 22:00:45 <ztrawhcse> $ equery d bash
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Aug 01 22:00:45 <ztrawhcse> * These packages depend on bash:
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Aug 01 22:00:46 <ztrawhcse> sys-apps/portage-3.0.65-r1 (!build ? >=app-shells/bash-5.0:0)
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Aug 01 22:00:56 <ztrawhcse> looks pretty darned mandatory to me
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Aug 01 22:01:17 <gemiller2> You can set "build" and not be dependent
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Aug 01 22:01:17 <ztrawhcse> (note that USE="-build" is a forbidden USE flag, that exists for the sake of bootstrapping stage0)
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Aug 01 22:01:30 <MiraSkies> how difficult would it be to remove the bashisms in portage
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Aug 01 22:01:58 <ztrawhcse> you are not permitted to set build, if you do then you are claiming to be the release engineering team and you aren't so you are executing an illegal maneuver
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Aug 01 22:02:18 <ztrawhcse> $ equery uses portage
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Aug 01 22:02:19 <gemiller2> if USE=build ever works, then bash is not a core dependency. OTOH, dependencie lie this are often wrong in gentoo
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Aug 01 22:02:19 <ztrawhcse> - - build : !!internal use only!! DO NOT SET THIS FLAG YOURSELF!, used for creating build images and the first half of bootstrapping [make stage1]
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Aug 01 22:03:00 <gemiller2> Yes, I knoew that, but if bash is required, then build can never work
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Aug 01 22:03:09 <indigo> Wait that's how you join the release engineering team?
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Aug 01 22:03:16 <indigo> ;)
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Aug 01 22:04:04 <larrythecow> MiraSkies: I doubt that will ever happen
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Aug 01 22:04:05 <larrythecow> But i'd be all for it
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Aug 01 22:04:32 <MiraSkies> larrythecow: the removing bashisms to make it SH and therefore posix compliant?
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Aug 01 22:04:39 <larrythecow> no, the move to pure python
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Aug 01 22:04:45 <ztrawhcse> gemiller2: it can only work when compiling an alternative ROOT where the host system provides bash, yes
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Aug 01 22:04:47 <larrythecow> 1. Portage is already written in Python
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Aug 01 22:04:53 <larrythecow> 2. Python is a "real" programming language with a lot more expression
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Aug 01 22:05:05 <larrythecow> Anyone who has looked at bash arrays will immediatly take a liking to python
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Aug 01 22:05:13 <larrythecow> python is the modern "standard" unix scripting language
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Aug 01 22:05:35 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: anyone who has ever looked at running external commands in python will immediately take a liking to bash
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Aug 01 22:05:37 <larrythecow> While I doubt it will ever happen, for good reason, if we were to redesign portage today, I would 100% forgo the use of bash to work with python instead
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Aug 01 22:05:47 <gemiller2> Good thing you put "standard" in quotes.
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Aug 01 22:05:57 <larrythecow> gemiller2: yes, it was there for a reaosn
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Aug 01 22:06:08 <larrythecow> I mean if anyone is going to get portage running without python please give it a shot
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Aug 01 22:06:16 <larrythecow> After all portage is written *in* python
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Aug 01 22:06:28 <larrythecow> ztrawhcse: I still believe that python provides a greal deal of expression that is just "meh" in bash
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Aug 01 22:06:30 * ztrawhcse hands larrythecow a bit of paludis
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Aug 01 22:06:41 <larrythecow> ztrawhcse: you are only giving me more reasons to use python
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Aug 01 22:06:55 <gemiller2> For fast moving, well maintained, things like Gentoo, yes. Python, but for lesser things, python is problematic.
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Aug 01 22:06:56 <larrythecow> Almost every unix like system has python. The same cannot be said for bash
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Aug 01 22:07:07 <larrythecow> While not as dyanamic, cports imo shows this
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Aug 01 22:07:14 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: certainly! But bash was never meant to be a general-purpose programming language, even though it kinda is. Its flow control and data structures are horrid. But it is REALLY good at running external commands
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Aug 01 22:07:21 <gemiller2> Yeah, has some python. 2.6? 4.6? Way too many problms there.
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Aug 01 22:07:35 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: WHAT
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Aug 01 22:07:51 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: many more systems have bash than have python. Most linuxes have both, though.
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Aug 01 22:08:04 <gemiller2> And all POSIX has sh
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Aug 01 22:08:15 <larrythecow> but sh doesn't need to be provided by bash
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Aug 01 22:08:20 <larrythecow> and it's important to note in a lot of cases it isn't
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Aug 01 22:08:33 <gemiller2> bash emulates sh pretty well.
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Aug 01 22:08:39 <larrythecow> gemiller2: but not all systems have it
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Aug 01 22:08:42 <ztrawhcse> many unixes have neither one by default, and make it easier to get bash than to get python
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Aug 01 22:09:03 <MiraSkies> ztrawhcse: point is though is that if portage works, then the ebuilds should also work
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Aug 01 22:09:04 <gemiller2> Is a system does not have sh, then it is not POSIX, and I don't care about them.
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Aug 01 22:09:13 <larrythecow> gemiller2: Portage doesn't depend on sh though
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Aug 01 22:09:17 <larrythecow> It depends on bash
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Aug 01 22:09:18 <ztrawhcse> some unixes *cannot* compile python at all, though you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel on that :P
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Aug 01 22:09:27 <larrythecow> Look don't get me wrong if portage suddenly became 100% posix compliant and we could swap out coreutils, findutils, grep, sh, etc, I would still be absoloutly sticking with bash and gnu coreutils
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Aug 01 22:09:44 <gemiller2> larrythecow: yes, which is why porage should only depend on sh
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Aug 01 22:09:48 <ztrawhcse> anyways, just to be perfectly clear, if portage works then bash works.
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Aug 01 22:10:02 <larrythecow> gemiller2: oh if we are going down that route then yea
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Aug 01 22:10:12 <gemiller2> coreutils, etc. are POSIX, plus additions.
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Aug 01 22:10:12 <larrythecow> I thought it was bash vs python
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Aug 01 22:10:23 <ztrawhcse> it is actually gentoo vs kisslinux
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Aug 01 22:10:35 <ztrawhcse> kisslinux, for when you need a PM written totally in posix sh
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Aug 01 22:10:38 <ztrawhcse> plus rsync
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Aug 01 22:10:45 <larrythecow> ztrawhcse: take https://github.com/chimera-linux/cports/blob/master/main/llvm/template.py
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Aug 01 22:10:48 <chat> ^ cports/main/llvm/template.py at master · chimera-linux/cports · GitHub
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Aug 01 22:10:57 <MiraSkies> chimera mentioned <3
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Aug 01 22:10:59 <larrythecow> The python really shines there
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Aug 01 22:11:34 <larrythecow> The subpackge decorator is fairly cool, and there is little subprocess . do something, in this case, none
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Aug 01 22:11:54 <larrythecow> As someone writing a package I'd prefer to do it in python over sh any day of the weekl
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Aug 01 22:12:22 <gemiller2> larrythecow: Until you have to maintain it for 20 years.
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Aug 01 22:12:28 <larrythecow> gemiller2: how so?
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Aug 01 22:12:36 <larrythecow> I don't see how sh would make things more maintainable here
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Aug 01 22:12:41 <larrythecow> Personally I'd argue the python is nicer to maintain
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Aug 01 22:12:49 <indigo> sh had less changes than python in the same timespan?
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Aug 01 22:12:49 <larrythecow> You even get to use modern editor features with things too!
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Aug 01 22:12:55 <gemiller2> Not a week goes by I don't have a python version bug. I don't shave sh version bugs.
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Aug 01 22:13:18 <gemiller2> indigo: hell yes, less changes.
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Aug 01 22:13:19 <larrythecow> sure there is an argument to make for that but I also doubt that you are just bumping version in the template.py
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Aug 01 22:13:21 <larrythecow> for 20 years
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Aug 01 22:13:43 <MiraSkies> (i also doubt that pkgname = "example" is ever going to be incorrect python)
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Aug 01 22:13:45 <larrythecow> Portage's core is written in python too, i mean are we arguing for a purely sh package manager here?
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Aug 01 22:14:06 <gemiller2> larrythecow: right. but I get bug reports from people useing 2.6, and the fix break 3.1+
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Aug 01 22:14:36 <larrythecow> That's fair, but I would imagine if something is written in python2 it will remain runnable in python2 for a long time
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Aug 01 22:14:37 <gemiller2> I'm not arguing for any changes t portage, except fewer bashisms.
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Aug 01 22:14:45 <larrythecow> And slowly, you can transition to python3
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Aug 01 22:14:58 <larrythecow> I think with the core of portage already written in python I don't personally see the need
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Aug 01 22:14:59 <ztrawhcse> frankly, I do not see anything in that cports template that makes me think python is so much better than bash
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Aug 01 22:15:12 <ztrawhcse> I do in fact like python more, but this is a trash way to prove it...
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Aug 01 22:15:13 <larrythecow> ztrawhcse: fstrings for one, the arrays are a lot nicer, the match is nicer
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Aug 01 22:15:15 <gemiller2> For a while python2 to python3 was easy, but now a lot of python2 core functions are just gone.
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Aug 01 22:15:36 <larrythecow> gemiller2: so your argument is about stability? I guess that is actually a fair way to consider it
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Aug 01 22:15:54 <larrythecow> Infact considering that I can see what you mean
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Aug 01 22:16:02 <larrythecow> I think I am biased here because I really despise writing shell
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Aug 01 22:16:05 <gemiller2> As I said, python (latest) for portage is fine for a well maintained system. Not for less maintained stuff.
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Aug 01 22:16:13 <larrythecow> And I have recently taken more of a liking to python (quite a bit more actually)
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Aug 01 22:16:24 <MiraSkies> gemiller2: wdym?
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Aug 01 22:16:33 <larrythecow> But I can understand it, I've worked with few ebuilds, ztrawhcse I'm guessing by the running commands that's fairly commonplace in ebuilds right?
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Aug 01 22:17:07 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: case $self_profile_arch in "ppc64"|"riscv64") ;; "ppc"|"armhf"|"armv7") ;; *) _enable_flang=$_enable_mlir ;; esac
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Aug 01 22:17:12 <MiraSkies> oof
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Aug 01 22:17:23 <larrythecow> MiraSkies: I don't think that's that bad actually
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Aug 01 22:17:28 <larrythecow> that's fairly understnable
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Aug 01 22:17:28 <gemiller2> Miraskies: I work with gpsd, it is used on all sorts of systems: Python 2.6 to Python latest. Being comapatible with all at the same time is hard.
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Aug 01 22:17:38 <larrythecow> I personally feel the main thing that would really just improve things would be to have some of the editor tooling that exists for python for sh eli
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Aug 01 22:17:42 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: it practically looks the same, bash has even less distracting syntax than python has
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Aug 01 22:17:50 <larrythecow> ztrawhcse: yea i see your point
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Aug 01 22:18:02 <larrythecow> I think really then it's just more of the tooling around writing sh
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Aug 01 22:18:18 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: and the really amazing part is that python 3.10 added this feature. It was 10x grosser in python 3.9
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Aug 01 22:18:29 <larrythecow> ohhh i forgot about that
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Aug 01 22:18:39 <ztrawhcse> bash has had this for a *very* long time, given that it's defined by POSIX sh
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Aug 01 22:18:51 <gemiller2> partly defined by POSIX sh
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Aug 01 22:19:09 <ztrawhcse> apparently there is, in fact, one thing that bash is just fundamentally nicer than python at. lmoa
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Aug 01 22:19:11 <ztrawhcse> lmao
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Aug 01 22:19:28 <ztrawhcse> larrythecow: get the heck off my keyboard you nut
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Aug 01 22:19:36 <larrythecow> lmoa literally my first though
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Aug 01 22:19:43 <larrythecow> ztrawhcse: wait actually I just realised something again
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Aug 01 22:19:51 <larrythecow> I'm a dumbass and need to look at sh tooling
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Aug 01 22:19:57 <larrythecow> shellcheck has an lsp?
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Aug 01 22:19:59 * bluearc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
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Aug 01 22:20:25 <larrythecow> ztrawhcse: is there a non haskell version of shellcheck by chance
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Aug 01 22:20:29 <larrythecow> or some alternative not in haskell
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Aug 01 22:20:33 <ztrawhcse> no
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Aug 01 22:20:35 <ztrawhcse> sorry
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Aug 01 22:20:38 * slow99 has quit (Quit: slow99)
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Aug 01 22:20:45 <larrythecow> oh nevermind shellcheck-bin works on musl
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Aug 01 22:20:47 <ztrawhcse> there is a web service running haskell for you, if you prefer
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Aug 01 22:20:48 <larrythecow> we all good
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Aug 01 22:20:50 <larrythecow> lmaos
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